STARWEB EMAIL DISCUSSION GROUP (THE SEDG) (Sponsored by Flying Moose Technologies' Starweb Analyzer - http://www.accessv.com/~wulkan/fmt.html) VOL 17 Oct. 11, 1999 Happy Thanksgiving to the Canadians and Happy Columbus Day to our American readers! CONTENTS Feature Article - Combat in Starweb by John Shannonhouse SPECIAL ARTICLES - 1)A new Private Game with a twist - By Ken Cassaday kenjody@foxinternet.net (Art Follow Up). 2)Private Partner's Anonymous Email Game by David Smith dmsmith001@aol.com Questions - Znnn ambush orders answered! SEDG Web Page URL - A NEW MAP HAS BEEN UPLOADED - SW-Z1283 The Captain's Log - Three Laws of Alliance The SWAP Corner - Defining Teams/Alliances in SWAP Correspondence - How I do my Turn (by John Gault) FEATURE ARTICLE - COMBAT IN STARWEB By John Shannonhouse (JohnShannonhouse@compuserve.com) Editor's note - This article of John's has been published previously on the internet. Starweb combat is deceptively simple. Each "key" has multiple ships. Each ship gets off one shot at it's designated target, which always hits. It takes two shots to kill off an opposing ship. Ships on the ground (either ISHPS or PSHPS) count as half a shot, rounded up. If a ship received only one shot the previous turn, it is "healed" for the following turn, and will still require two shots to be destroyed. This is all 100% predictable . So what makes Starweb combat exciting? There are several issues that can turn a combat into something exciting. One of them is making best use of the resources at hand. Another is the fun and excitement of outguessing your opponent and making him waste his shots while all of yours count. Doing the unexpected can have a major impact on a battle. A combat is rarely one key vs another key, with no outside factors. It is also one small part in the war. Losing the battle the right way, even when you *could* have won it, will sometimes mean that you win the war. For the best technical use of your ships, the *order* in which things occur is very important. Builds from the world and the transfer of ships between fleets/world occur *before* combat takes place. Also, **TIP ALERT**, shots from ISHPs and PSHPs round up *separately*. That means that two ISHPs will get off one shot, not enough to kill a ship, but one ISHP and one PSHP will get off *two* shots, which *will* kill off a ship. By changing the mix on the world, it is usually possible to get one more shot. That also means that, assuming you own the world, you can transfer down two ships without losing any firepower. Frequently the fight over a key world can involve numerous keys, multiple players, and sometimes hundreds of ships. In a case like this, the important thing is to make your opponent shoot at one ship keys with his huge armada, while you target all your firepower at targets big enough to take it. You do this with the judicious transfer of ships. Unless you vastly overpower your opponent, *never* spread your ships around evenly on your keys. That guarantees that your opponent will have good targets for all his shots. **TIP ALERT 2** You want to leave at least one ship on each key so that it does not go neutral, but keep only one or two keys with a lot of ships to do your damage. If he wastes his shots on your one ship keys, your power base will be virtually untouched. The selection of the ships to attack and to protect is another key to combat, and is the real measure of your proficiency in combat (as opposed to war) in Starweb. The choice should revolve around your estimate of the proficiency of your opponent, location of artifacts, "coincidental" occurrences, the player types involved (Pirate, Berserker, Empire Builder, Apostle, Merchant), and the other players involved. If multiple players are involved, you also have to determine the level of trust and trustworthiness on both sides. If you think your opponent is not too bright or experienced, assume there will not be any transfers between keys/world. If you are wary of his capabilities, prepare for a more intelligent distribution. After a round or two of combat, you might be able to guess what his strategy will be. Determine character type as well. Keep in mind that an Empire Builder will usually move to protect the world. An Artifact Collector is more likely to protect art at the expense of the combat. A merchant is likely to want to get away with a large haul of metal. A pirate will be trying to arrange a pirate capture of fleets. A berserker may attempt to robotize the world in order to wrest control from you. An experienced player may suddenly leave all the ships on the original key, just because the opponent will expect the transfer, or will eave the world/art/whatever unguarded. The key here is to determine the level of expertise of the opponent and hit where it will do the most damage based on what you expect him to do. Players can freely transfer ships back and forth between each other's keys and worlds. An alliance working together will do their best to hit on the strong points of their members. For example, **TIP ALERT 3**, if attacking a home world, they may transfer all the ships possible to a single pirate ally key, and have it move to the home world along with a couple of one ship Berserker keys. If the pirate capture does not work, the pirate will transfer all the ships to one of the Berserker keys. If the opponent guesses the wrong one to shoot at, or splits the attacks evenly between the two, the home world can be robotized. Having a single one ship Artifact Collector key carrying valuable art "accidentally" wander into the middle of a battle can be useful. The opponent will assume it is there accidentally, and will ignore it. Transfer ships to the Artifact Collector key for the combat that turn. The player will then assume that the Artifact Collector would never leave that ship and it's cargo undefended, and will attack it. When the Artifact Collector transfers the ships back to one of his allies instead, the opponent will have wasted two full turns of combat. The previous paragraph assumes a working alliance where the players trust each other. If you are a member of that type of alliance, you will be able to pull off some truly amazing coups. That is also the most dangerous combination you can possibly face. Your biggest hope when facing an opposing alliance is that they are all worrying about being back stabbed by another member. You should generally assume that your opponents do not trust each other, and make your first attacks based on that idea. If they do trust each other, and if they are intelligent enough to make it work, you are in serious trouble. You will need an equally dedicated alliance to oppose them. If you don't have that trust and dedication, just be prepared to come off second best. You also need to look beyond the individual combat to strategies that are using the combat as just one part of an overall plan. **TIP ALERT 4**. A common practice is to engage the opponents with a smaller force, while massing your main force close by. As he attacks your small force, fly over the world with your larger force. A ship cannot both ambush and fire at the same time, so your main force will get by unscathed. Of course, keep this in mind on the defense as well. **TIP ALERT 5**. You may want to sit without making return fire if you expect the opponent's plan is to fly over you. You can do a massive amount of damage with an ambush. For an ambush, each ship does *two* shots instead of one, and does them to every single key that flies over, not just to one. Just be aware that combat comes before movement, so you need to have ships available *after* the combat to do the ambush. The "transfer all but one ship from each key to one key" strategy is the most likely to be successful. **TIP ALERT 6**. A related strategy is to meet a large armada with a smaller but still significant one of your own. At the same time, have your alliance move to get as many ships in range as possible, with at least one pirate fleet meeting or being gifted at key junctures. Transfer all the ships to the pirate fleets and have him move in for the pirate capture. The large force will spend one turn wiping out your medium sized armada, but your return fire, plus the incoming pirate ships, should be enough for the pirate capture. This not only seriously depletes the opponent's forces, but is a major increase to your own. As you can see, there are plenty of strategies and counter strategies in Starweb combat. Outguessing your opponent by determining his level of expertise is exciting. Meeting a superior force and reducing it to rubble through superior tactics, or seeing the opponent's overall attack suddenly fizzle because of a completely unexpected ambush really gives you a feeling of mastery in the game. Meeting another master of tactics and besting him is even better. I have successfully used all of the above tactics, and there is no reason that you cannot do the same. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- A PUBLIC PRIVATE BITTER END SW GAME By Ken Cassady - A follow up. To date I believe there are 4 people signed up to play in Ken's game. There are at least another couple that are interested. I'm sure he will need at least 12 players to make it interesting but they are discussing playing 7 players with 2 positions each. There has been some heated discussion on the use of art towards the victory conditions and to help place the Art Collector into this Bitter end game. From last issue: >Editors suggestion: How about Victory requires that the sum of your >worlds and art must equal 160! So if you collect 50 art you only need >110 worlds to win. Then art has some value! I have played in games >with weird victory conditions - FBI cannot track them so you have to >announce to your fellow players that "I have won" and then inform FBI. >But it can be done. Ken said: Elliot, You done it again I like this suggestion. Here is my take on this: Proposed idea for using artifacts for VP # VP Total Standard Artifact 64 1 64 Standard Artifact Yours 16 3 48 Greatest Treasure 1 5 5 Plastic Items 9 -3 -27 Treasure of Polaris 1 8 8 Slipper of Venus 1 4 4 Radioactive Isotope 1 -12 -12 Lesser of 2 Evils 1 -6 -6 Each Nebula Scrolls 5 2 10 (not totaled) All five Nubula Scrolls 20 (total) Black Box 1 0 0 Total possible +VP 159 Total possible -VP -45 If we did this then the Artifact player could be played and his benefit could be doubling all the +VP points and halving all the -VP for artifacts ART COLLECTOR Total possible +VP 318 Total possible -VP -18 (plastic artifacts would only be -1) The total planets VP 255 + artifact VP 159 = 414 VP I would propose 200 VP to win. I could count VP and post them each turn to the web site. Ken Editor: I also took a stab at the Art basing the AC art at 3 times the value of regular art and not letting other characters get value except for their own art. ART COLLECTOR NOT ART COLLECTOR # VP VPTotal # VP Total Standard Artifact 64 1 64 64 0 0 Standard Artifact Yours 16 3 48 16 1 16 Greatest Treasure 1 15 15 1 3 3 Plastic Item 9 1 9 9 -1 -9 Treasure of Polaris 1 8 8 1 4 4 Slipper of Venus 1 4 4 1 2 2 Radioactive Isotope 1 6 6 1 -6 -6 Lesser of 2 Evils 1 6 6 1 -3 -3 Each Nebula Scrolls 5 2 10 5 0 0 All five Nebula Scrolls 20 15 Black Box 1 6 6 1 0 0 TOTALS 100 100 Total possible +VP 196 40 Total possible -VP 0 -18 NO BONUSES FOR HAVING ALL OF YOUR SPECIAL CATEGORY OR FOR MUSEUMS. Art would not affect normal players all that much. They would still have to go for the 150 worlds. So if they had 5 pieces of their own category art they might have to go for 145 worlds. Keeping art may be a way to slow down an Art Collector (as it always is). Now let's assume an Art Collector gets half the art in the universe. He has 90 VPs and still has to find 60 worlds to hit the VP total. Voila, a bitter end game that still focuses on territorial Victory conditions but allows the Art Collector to retain his special powers/advantages. I KEPT MOST OF THE RATIOS OF VALUE FOR ART (1:3 FOR NORMAL ART IN THE HANDS OF THE NONCOLLECTOR AND COLLECTOR). This assumes the lowest value of 1 is equivalent to owning 1 world. This will give the Art collector more bang for the art and might stimulate some trades even for art players want. Say you give 2 worlds for the normal art - the Art collector is ahead and so is the player who traded it. If you only find 7 players you might consider doing it as a minimulti game with every player getting 2 positions. Elliot Editor's note: The art is a discussion in progress. Personally I think Ken's proposal is interesting but very difficult to keep track of (FBI won't do it - the players will). For more information on Ken's Private Bitter End Starweb Game you can email him at kenjody@foxinternet.net or look up Volume #16 of the SEDG on our web site. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Private Partner's Anonymous Email Game by David Smith dmsmith001@aol.com PRIVATE PARTNERS ANONYMOUS STARWEB o Game played anonymously -- player's honor not to talk amongst themselves. Game will be played in a non-scrambled (FBI) format. o Anonymous trash talking is permitted, as long as email messages are sent to everyone in the game. Again -- honor rules apply to ensure that data is not deliberately given away. o Game played via email. FBI will assign code names. o Six or seven two-man/woman teams. On turn 1, each player chooses an ending score between 1 and 15,000. o Game ends when the first player crosses the victory point limit. The winning team, however, will be determined by the highest combined team score at that point. To clear up some potential confusion, just because Retief trips the ending score point, doesn't mean Retief's team wins. At that point, the game ends, and combined team scores are used for final scoring criteria. Be careful, then, to what degree you let your partner's scores separate. o After some deliberation, I've decided that each team may pick their own player types. I considered putting together six or seven split player types, and having FBI choose one for each team at the start (which would mean you play what you get). If there's interest in something like this, perhaps we can do it another time. o Team startups will come on a first come - first served basis. o Two week turnaround o Virtual beer offered to the winning team. :-) Dave Smith dmsmith001@aol.com Editor's note: To sign up you must email Dave and supply your and your partner's Real names, email addresses, character choices and FBI Acct #s. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- QUESTIONS - Can anyone answer these? In Volume 16 Ken Cassady asked: > I wanted to put two worlds that I have fleets at with the order >Znnn. I do not own the worlds. I am trying to take the world FnnnAH >(with one key) but I do not want to kill any of his fleets that might >be flying by while doing so. I wish I could call him up and just tell >him what I am doing and have him avoid me for the while. The joys of >Anonymous games. The rules describe that I can set a world no ambush >but does not state that I have to own the world to make the command. Ken got a response from FBI. Apparently anyone can order Znnn even if you don't own the world and any fleets you own there will not ambush (and if you own the world your homefleets will be similarly quiet). Brian Lease asked: I asked this question to Flying Buffalo and they answered it with an "I think so", and since the answer to the question could prove pivotal in an anon game I'm in, I thought I'd ask the expert. If I gift a fleet to a player, and that fleet is destroyed (ships destroyed attached to the key) the turn I gift it, will the player I was gifting it to receive a report on the world that fleet(key) was on when it was gifted and destroyed? This might be a good question for your newsletter but I could really use an answer sooner than that. Please ... Editor's note: My answer was a definite - "I think so". Is anyone out there sure of the answer? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- STARWEB EMAIL DISCUSSION GROUP - is now available on the web. Look for our new MAPPER'S SECTION on the SEDG Web Page. A NEW MAP HAS BEEN UPLOADED - SW-Z1283 http://www.accessv.com/~somnos/sedg.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FEATURE - THE CAPTAIN'S LOG 991010.1201-4 By Walt Schmidt walts@dorsai.org "We cannot always assure the future of our friends; we have a better chance of assuring our (own) future if we remember who our friends are." - Henry Kissinger Last issue I spoke of a future issue that would deal with alliances. Before we look at alliances and all the related detail - let's first look at Nemo's Three Laws of Alliance (with apologies to the late, great Isaac Asimov). My Three Laws of Alliance are real simple... 1 - My Comrades - first and foremost! 2 - Myself - a damn close second. 3 - All Others - can go scratch... Oh yes - there is a "zeroeths" law (apologies again to Mr. Asimov) that precedes and encompasses the other three. It too is real simple: 0 - Death To All Traitors - Shai Dorsai! Let's take a closer look at all three, er, four "rules." But first a simple axiom [NEMO, I see you're throwing around ten- dollars words again! Was there some particular reason you couldn't just simply say, "a simple fact."] [Yes!] [GRRRRR!] [Alter] [YES Nemo] [How long have we been doing this?] [IF you mean our tete-a-tete, so long a time, it seems like forever] [I see now it's your turn to throw around the saw- bucks - yes that's what I meant, and yes it has been a long time] [YOUR point?] [Alter, I would have thought, you would have learned by now - ask me a question as you just did, and you'll always get the same answer] [I HAVE learned, I've also learned my asking gets to you doesn't it Nemo] [Grrrrr!]. Now where were we - oh yes - that simple acknowledged fact: Star Web is a game. Let me say that again: Star - Web - Is - A - Game. No matter how much it means to us, nor how long we've been involved with Loomis and his to-be-envied life's work, let us all not forget - it is (just) a game. That having been said, and understood - we can do things in the game that we would not do in real life. As the expression goes, in life there are certain "bells" that can never be "un-rung." But now for the nuance - this may only be a game - but that doesn't mean all will be forgiven the next time around. Another old expression - once burned, twice shy. How does that apply here - real simple - if you stab me in the back in this game, I'll probably not forget that for a long time. There is a fine line (or in some cases a blatantly obvious action) between allowing me to think a certain way, and outright mendacity [MY god, Nemo's upped the word-ante to a double saw- buck!] [Ah, Alter, twas nothing] [YOU'RE right about that Nemo - gotcha back!] [ ]. I don't care if this is just a simple game - my reputation is my reputation regardless of what it is with which we're dealing. That needed to be said so you could better understand why the "zeroeth" Law is what it is. You lie - you die - and I don't easily forget that you have lied. On the other hand, be crafty, mis-direct me, and I'll begrudgingly tip my hat to you. After all, that's exactly what I've been trying to do to you, all long. But who is the you - the them. There in is the geneses of my first Law. My team (mates) first. As this is only a game, if I lose this one - there will be others. But if I tarnish my reputation - it could take a long time to get others to join with me in future alliances. So, one of the first things to do is to form that alliance and never forget who's on your side. The rest are the "them." But, that does not mean I'm gonna give away the farm - and that's where the second Law comes in. Even while my teammates and I might be planning, I am always watching out for my own neck, as it were. I'm watching out for the effects my current actions will have, on how my long-term reputation will precede me in future games. And as I'm worrying about my teammates and my own neck, and with all that is therefore on my mind, you can perhaps better understand the third Law - and why I say everyone else can go scratch! If you ain't "us," then you are "them." And except for POGO [NEMO, you really expect our readers to remember that quote?] [Yes] [WELL, for those who might not - the comic strip POGO quote goes something like "We have met the Enemy, and he is us"] [Thank-you Alter]. As I was saying if you are them, you are the enemy. [SO, where's the moderation your so well known for, Nemo?] [Read on Alter] But no matter how much I'm following the Second Rule, there is another maxim I follow: "If I was so busy that I didn't make the time available to take part in a plan's creation, you'll never hear me second-guessing what my comrades decided." After all: "If I haven't made it a point to help - then I sure as hell don't deserve the time to bitch!" Makes admiral sense to me - all of it! See you next issue... - Shai Dorsai ! Nemo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FEATURE - THE SWAP CORNER - DEFINING TEAMS Team support allows you to create and manage teams e.g. My allies, Scum of the Universe etc. You define a team name and list the players who are part of that team. The names on this list can be any of the players in the game even those you do not see yet. Defining Teams enables the program to handle groups of players so that the map can make each team one color. It also allows for certain warnings when doing orders in the order editor that precludes mistakes like building to the wrong keys and allows for certain filters to be done by team. Teams often defined are your own alliance and other known alliances. If team information is not provided, then all players who are not members of a defined team will become their own team of one. To define a team you must close the Analysis Window, then edit the Game Profile and then press the Teams button to bring up the Manage Teams dialog. (In V1.2 you can define Teams by opening the Preferences dialogue on any window). For each team you define you will need to enter the Team Name - this can be anything you designate such as "allies", "enemies", "scum of the universe". Use the Add button to add new team names. Below the Team Member window you use the Add button to add character names to each team. When you are finished, press Done and then exit the Edit Game Profile dialog by pushing OK. Now process the game turns. Note: the map looks the same as it did before. To display the map using team colors, right click on the map background and select Display by Team. You should now instantly be able to see the boundaries of your alliance. SOUND HOOKS - Not particularly useful but lots of fun. There are a few places where the SWAP will activate sound (.wav) files. When Mike wrote the program he stuck in a few for us from Battlestar Galactica and the movie War Games. But since they are proprietary we cannot include them. You must put these .wav files in the folder where your SWAP resides (defaults to c:\SWAP). They also must be named accordingly. If you use the Order Box (Upper right part of the Analyzer window toolbar - and an excellent topic for future articles) a file named addCmd.wav will be activated whenever you send an order to your order editor. (I have the Cylons stating "By your Command"). Process.wav will be active whenever you initiate the processing of game turns. (I have use the statement from War Games by the computer "Shall we play a game?") Shutdown.wav will be initiated whenever you close the SWAP. (I have the computer of the Star Trek universe saying "Initiating shutdown sequence"). I'm sure we will put in more as the mood strikes us. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CORRESPONDENCE Last issue I talked about a BRAGGART's corner. To date I have not received any submissions. If this is not of interest to people I will quickly drop it. We shall try it one more time. BRAGGART'S CORNER Long Games - Highest Score Gary Schaefer SW-L/28 [ZYMURGY]: Berserker (Score=31928) Ships? Worlds? Art? Industry? PBBs? Other? Would also like the same for regular games. HOW I DO MY TURN I promised to publish "How I do my turn" letters especially if they relied more on pen and paper. Here is one from John Gault. Where there are quote marks '>' John is quoting my article in Volume #16 of the SEDG. John said: > 1. Peruse turnsheet superficially - look for any unusual events (like > enemy invasions, keys that don't move, successful attacks by my > allies). Same. > Send my turnsheet by email to my allies. I don't (and have only once received one). If my allies did this it would be 'information overload' for me. Besides, I never get my turn sheets in machine-readable form: it costs extra except for email-only games, and those go too fast for me. Once I've made a map I'll share it with my allies. That is usually all the data that needs to be shared, except where someone is going to be hauling for me or picking up art, and in those cases I direct them. (And of course if I'm hauling for them, they direct me.) Of course toward the end of the game when there is fighting going on, more needs to be shared, but even then it is usually just one player doing the fighting for the alliance. Until I started coming to the conventions I never encountered anybody who shared turn sheets or allowed their account number to be known, and it still seems like a bad idea to me. > 2. Await the turnsheets of all my allies by email before doing >anything else. This can be an annoying wait - I like allies who email >turns the same day. Except where I'm hauling, fighting, or building (as EB) for the other guy, his situation has no effect on what I'm going to do. Even if I am, it only affects my orders for the few fleets or worlds I'm using for that purpose, so I can do most of my turn now. Doing it early avoids missing deadlines. > 3. I use the Flying Moose Technologies Starweb Analyzer to view all > the.... The Analyzer's mapping feature is nice, but I can do as well by hand, and the way it organizes orders is not the way I want them. > 4. Update my Score sheet and email to buddies. Occasionally sending >it to the enemy if I particularly want him to see how far ahead of him >I/we are :-). My allies and I are, or should be, scoring every point we can _regardless_ of whether we're first or last. So the score isn't going to affect my actions in the game, except maybe turns 4-6 where I'm meeting new players and trying to figure out what character types they are. Otherwise the score is something to look at after I've sent the next turn in. I'll skip the next few since they don't apply to me. After your step 1 (and mapping by hand if it's an exploration turn), this is the next thing I do -- but I use a text editor, and the (potential) orders are arranged in the same order as the turn sheet I just got: 1. Overall orders (ally/loader status on/off, jihad, and the "don't ambush anywhere" order if it applies.) 2. For each world in order of world number: a) Builds and transfers (since they determine what ships each fleet or home-fleet has). b) Other orders that pertain to the world itself (scrap ships, attack or probe with home fleets, give world away, plunder, don't ambush). c) For each fleet at the world, in order of fleet number (generally all orders for one fleet are written on one line): 1) Unload (art and metal). 2) Load (art and metal). 3) Probe. 4) Move or attack. 5) Other fleet-specific orders (at-peace on/off, gift, build a nuke). 3. "MSG" or "SIGN" orders to send messages. Most of this is in outline form, as you suggest; however, most unload orders are written right away because they're obvious, and things like scrapping ships tend to be planned far enough ahead that they're obvious too. After that I go back and fill in actual orders in this sequence. 1. Fleets that are to load metal and bring it home, do so. (If this requires building or transferring ships to the fleet, write that.) 2. Fleets that will need to load metal NEXT turn, go to where it is. (If this requires building or transferring ships to the fleet, write that.) Neither of the above will tend to occur on the first three turns, but full production is more important than any exploration beyond ring 3. (Editor's note: That's you're opinion buster :-)!) 3. Remaining fleets that have an obvious useful task (explore, ambush, attack, robotize something, go to where ships will be scrapped, or gift the fleet to a Merchant or Pirate ally) do that. Prioritize possible gift orders at this time; there are always more I'd like to give than I am allowed to. Fleets that can't usefully do any of those things are ordered to go get excess metal; it's nice to have several turns' metal at the homeworld before you have to fight someone, so you can leave off hauling to defend yourself without falling behind on production. 4. Allocate any builds that weren't "spoken for" in the first two items. Special cases: If another player is acting on my behalf (an EB who owns my HW or a Merchant hauling in my area), I write the orders for the HW or the fleets as if they were mine and send them to that player. Conversely, if I'm hauling for another player or operating his HW, I ask him for orders; but if I don't get any by the weekend before deadline, I'll make up some sensible ones and send the turn in anyway, and expect to send it again when I get his orders. If a turn gets missed, I don't want it to be my fault. > 22. Check off that the game has been sent in on my master game list > (which tracks due dates, orders sent and receipts received). Yes, this > is very, very type A behavior but when you have been in up to 8 games > at a time you can easily forget if you sent in orders. > 26. Move onto the next Starweb game. (YOU AREN'T ONLY IN ONE GAME ARE > YOU!!!!!) I spend enough time on each game that I can only handle three or four PBM/PBEM games at a time, and I can't afford to have them all be games that cost money. Currently I'm in three -- 1835, Up Front, and Diplomacy -- all of which are free. If anyone else is interested in these, check out: 1835: http://bcn.net/~stoll/bill/ Up Front: http://www.iserv.net/~grinner/UF/UF.html Diplomacy: http://devel.igo.org/DipPouch/ John David Galt Well, that's it for Volume 17. Don't be afraid to submit articles or suggestions. They don't have to be long. Address your correspondence to Elliot Hudes at somnos@compuserve.com