STARWEB EMAIL DISCUSSION GROUP (THE SEDG) (Sponsored by Flying Moose Technologies' Starweb Analyzer - http://flyingmoose.cjb.net) VOL 26, February 14, 2000 CONTENTS Feature Article - THE MIGHTY ART COLLECTOR by Elliot Hudes Questions - The AntiMerchant SEDG Web Page URL The Captain's Log - The Deal is the Thing The Swap Corner - HOW DO I PART II - FINDING FLEETS Correspondence - Responses to Vol. 25 - The Starweb Formula, Scrapping Industry Classified Ads FEATURE ARTICLE - THE MIGHTY ART COLLECTOR By Elliot Hudes (somnos@compuserve.com) The Art Collector - mighty warrior, mercenary, entrepreneur and venture capitalist, is this just my imagination? I don't think so! Art Collectors have such myriad ways of playing that they can be quite fascinating. You don't just exchange worlds and ships for art and sit counting your loot until game end. Well, I guess you can if you want but consider this, most positions exchange things they don't need for scoring for those that they do need. Often, this can be at the expense of what is required to wage war. As I've mentioned in other articles (and to anyone who will listen) the push for points versus the inclination towards war can work against each other by using up the same resources. Here are some examples. The Empire Builder gives up his ships and keys for worlds or uses his ships to build industry and winds up being an inefficient warrior. Similarly, the Berserker needs to consume ships to R attack or PBB to fund his score. Loss of ships to war means loss of points. A scoring Pirate needs worlds to score and often only gets ships on loan for warlike behavior (often returning them later to his allies that need them). A merchant will give up his real estate, ships and keys for the right to haul and may have nothing left for fighting. Apostles are much like Berserkers and require ships for kills on a Jihad target. He actually could lose points in a firefight with a nonjihad target. For any of these player types to favor war heavily will put a drain on their ships which they need to score with(Berserkers/Apostles/Empire Builders) or has less tender to use in trade. Now consider the Art Collector. Once he has the art safely hidden any warlike tendencies will not detract from his score. Think about it - all the scoring potential and a fun little war to boot. The only negative is that the ships used for war are out of circulation to barter for art and often ships are what players ask for in payment for art. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Collectors that go for maximum commerce with as many players as possible will leave him no ships for defense and may have no firm alliances to protect himself with. On the other hand, if you are part of an alliance your security is at least vouched for by others even if it may limit your art trading to a small number of players. This leads to a discussion of playing and trading styles. Is it better to play as the NEUTRAL TRADER versus ALLIANCE MEMBER? Of course this is a spectrum of play and I will discuss the most extreme examples. A) NEUTRAL TRADER As such you try to remain neutral to EVERYONE. You stay clear of politics and get as much art as you can with your resources. Yes, you must remain neutral because even the rumor that you are partaking in partisan politics will put you at risk of being on someone's target list. If you must defend yourself you will need to keep ships and you will need close friends (So you should have considered playing in an ALLIANCE STYLE). PRO 1) Trade everything for art - Worlds to Empire Builders, Apostles and Pirates. - Ships to Pirates, Apostles, Berserkers (later in the game). - Keys to pirates and perhaps Apostles/Berserkers to help ferry their PBBs. - 2) Maximizes your client base. 3) Fun of being a master diplomat to stay out of trouble. CON 1) No true friends to come protect you if you are attacked aside from clients who may have vested interests such as continued ships from your Homeworld. But what do you do if it's your clients that are taking your stuff? 2) War - You must avoid this and be totally neutral which may not suit you. 3) BEAN COUNTING - Since you are not in a tight alliance where it's ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL, you can expect your clients to try to make the best deal possible or at least one of fair value in regards to scoring potential. Is this good or bad? It depends on your outlook but we can examine what art is worth and see what an average Art Collector empire can afford to spend with his 17 worlds and keys. We know that some character types scoring potential outstrip others and point for point trades will leave certain players behind. This is true for the Art Collector in comparison with a merchant or Berserker. You may wish to drive harder bargains with certain characters than others because of these scoring discrepancies and you may have to adjust prices just to get along because if there are 15 players in a game there will be 15 opinions on what is fair :-). Let us do this all in terms of standard artifacts worth 15 points/turn. On average each empire will find 6.5 pieces of art. Bean Counting Worlds - Merchants - If he is fully hauling metal to your HW he will bring in 30 metal/turn worth 240 points/turn. He would need 16 pieces of art to pay for such a luxury. You could recruit 2 merchants and allow them to haul 15 metal/turn = 120 points/turn in return for 7 pieces of art each (105 pts/turn - maybe less if plastic or more if an ancient/pyramid). Pirates - they plunder worlds every 4rth turn receiving 50, 40 then 30 points. No need to go further than that because if you meet them on turn 4 and the game goes somewhere between turn 16 - 20 then there is only enough time for 3 plunders. Worlds will be handed over throughout the game and the later ones will be worth less but for simplicity sake we can say that each world is worth 120 points over 12 turns or 10 points/turn. Therefore, each 3 worlds are worth two standard artifacts (or one AC artifact). Now you must remember that you cannot give all your worlds to the pirate, as you must have some mines functioning and your HW industry building ships. Also, many of the worlds are of much more worth in the hands of the Empire Builder, Apostle or Berserker and you can get more art with them. Let us assume then that half your empire is rocklike worlds with few mines, population or industry. If you have 9 worlds to give you can expect 6 pieces of art. Many pirates will accept 1 world for 1 art. Empire Builders - Worlds range in value from 1-42 points/turn. I assume you will want to turn over high population/mine worlds to the Empire Builder to keep mines working and for resale value (good to offer to Berserkers for PBB kills at the very end of the game). Often most of these worlds will be worth in the range of 15-25 points (100 population with 5 mines would be 15 points). I believe that you can easily get 1 piece of art and as many as 2 for a juicy world. Assuming you still have 7 worlds after dealing with a pirate you can expect 7-9 pieces of art from various EBs. The HW deserves special mention - with 100 population, 2 mines and 30 industry it is worth 42 points/turn and is worth 3 arts. You can easily find 10-12 art from Empire Builders and since they won't have this much you can deal with at least 2 EBs. Berserkers/Apostles - need to score most by dropping PBBs. They tend to target worlds with over 100 population (see SEDG Vol. 1 On Being Metallic). So a world with 125 population will be worth 450 points to the Berserker and 250 points to the Apostle. Holding an art for 10 turns is worth 150 points and for as long as 15 turns 225 points. So here you see that a gift PBB could be worth 2-3 arts to a Berserker and 1-1 1/2 arts to the Apostle. If you think you will be at full ship production by turn 8 and the game will run another 10 turns then you have at least 300 ships to sell and possibly more. You could afford to buy 7 standard arts from a Berserker for as little as 62.5 to as much as 87.5 ships. To obtain 7 from an Apostle would cost from 125-175 ships. Of course all of these calculation ignore the museum potential of the art which will each be worth an additional 50 points towards the 500- point museum. Bean Counting Ships/Keys With your excess ships (if any) you know that every 4 ships can be converted to an industry by the EB for 1 point/turn. Conceivably 1 art may represent an investment of 60 ships. Since the 15 industry created can then create more industry (compound interest) it is probably less. To the Pirate the value is not so concrete as they don't translate directly into points except as it affects his ability to wage war and obtain more worlds to plunder. It can be a very wise investment especially if the pirate captures art with the ships and you can exact an agreement that these are turned over to you in return for the ships. Keys - Also a difficult commodity to translate into points except for the pirate who receives 3 points/turn for them. Clearly they are key for targeting in battle and for giving Berserkers/Apostles extra opportunities to ferry PBBs but nobody would turn over 5 keys for 1 piece of art. Would they? It sure would leave you pretty defenseless. TALLY So how much art could you garner for 17 worlds, 17 keys and about 300 ships if you were the NEUTRAL TRADER and everything went your way? a) Your art =7 b) 2 Merchants = 14 c) 1 Pirate (9worlds) = 6 art d) 1 Pirate (ships=100) =7 art (a guess) e) 2 EBs - 1HW +7 worlds = 9 art f) Berserker ships (90) = 7 art g) Apostle ships (125) = 7 art TOTAL = 57 art. This is not bad and if you're the sole Art Collector in the game it's slightly better than half the art. If there are 2 or more Collectors competing you can bet that prices will rise. Other considerations - 1) Merchants - to give you 7 arts for the right to haul only 120 pts/turn or 15 metal/turn may be turned down. Many will recognize that the ability of a merchant to get you to full ship production quickly and utilizing half the ships you do is worth something. 2) Berserkers may balk at 80 ships for 7 art even if you point out the equal scoring potential and their propensity to score much better than anyone else. It just appears cheap even if the math seems to work. So much for the bean counting. ALLIANCE PLAYING STYLE You pledge your undying support to a tightly knit group of fellows who are all cross-allied. Yes, I realize you may ally with various players not necessarily allied to each other but I'm talking about the extreme case at one end of a spectrum. The best mix (but by no means the most common) would be 6 players with 1 of each player type. This minimizes competition for the exact same resources. The basic premise is - NO BEAN COUNTING - you just give each person what he or she needs, when they need it to promote score (and various other features of an alliance like mutual defense). Obviously you get the art. This is my favored way to play - no headaches and balance sheets :-). PRO 1) Guaranteed client base. 2) Security - there is safety in numbers. 3) War - if this is your joy in gaming then as I mentioned earlier you are in the ideal group. You can wage war without harming your scoring potential. In fact, you are in a group that will likely become aggressors and be most successful at your chosen vocation and your potential for claiming art captures is much more so than the NEUTRAL TRADER. CON 1) 6 players mean about 40 artifacts, which is theoretically less than the NEUTRAL TRADER. 2) There is a tendency for your allies to liquidate your position and let you sit with the art as they consume all the things you own that they need. You can avoid this by explaining early that you "Want a piece of the action". Although it doesn't look as good playing this way I have seen Art Collectors experience remarkable success. In one game on T20 a Collector in an alliance of 6 owned 70 pieces of art. The quick destruction of 3 empires ensured this. There is also some ability to do some trading outside your alliance. IF - a) Your pirate is a nonscoring warlike Pirate (very common). You have more worlds to trade. b) Cooperative kills - you can invite outside (but not opponent) Apostle/Berserkers to share in your allies' population kills by showing up to AP. This costs nothing to your allies so can be a viable source of trade. OTHER STRATEGIES 1) Take plastic off players' hands for free. It helps them to stop losing points and can contribute a museum to you. 2) Nebula Scrolls. They are worth 0 points/turn and only contribute to a museum unless you have them all. Unless you have an exact multiple of 10 arts then the scrolls are likely superfluous to your position. You could offer to create a complete set for another player worth 1000 points for them. In one game I had 4 and offered them to the owner of the final volume. 3) Promote the targeting of other Art Collectors in the game. Fast lightning strikes at their HWs by pirate allies could capture art. If he can run - he will try to hide the art. I have even extended this ploy to targeting the Art Collector and his allies so eventually there was no place for the art to hide. This is difficult but possible. 4) Let's make a deal! If there is another Art Collector in the game who is not doing as well as you there may be the potential to get him to pass you all his art especially if there is someone you would like to prevent from winning. The 1998 FBI convention had 1 art collector holding 100 pieces (all of the art) from such a deal. I believe the 10 museums, the scrolls and your two categories will get you an 8,500 bonus. He didn't win :-). Museums - This is a quick grab of 500 points per 10 artifacts on a world owned by you. It seems rather simple as a concept but there are a few pieces of advice. 1) Try to get your art together ASAP and then have 10 pieces of art per key. This way you can just drop the art even the turn before the game ends. A key with 20 art must fly to a world, drop art, fly to a world and drop art. This could take 3 turns, which you may not have. Having 30 pieces on a key makes it worse. Too much art on a key - well there is the old adage about having all your eggs in one basket. 2) Keep your art moving and out of sight especially from probing by enemies. Stay away from borders where a surprise jump by an enemy pirate will grab your hard-earned art. 3) Don't create museums too early so that the enemy can have time to gain intelligence and locate them. It also ties up worlds you can trade away. Get some plundered out useless world later in the game from a buddy. Art collecting can be a very challenging diplomatic or warlike position and suprisingly I found it quite enjoyable. Elliot Hudes ----------------------------------------------------------------------- QUESTIONS - Can anyone answer these? Last issue I asked - Here is a relatively obscure term I've heard in Starweb. The "AntiMerchant". I know what it is but do you? I haven't heard from anyone out there so I have to assume you either don't know, don't care or are passed out somewhere after taking Captain Nemo's advice regarding Tequila to heart! This is the nickname given to a player used in a game where you are actively trying to promote your merchant's score and there are limited metal supplies. The HW in question must have a surplus of metal over building needs (as you can't load metal that will be built with). The merchant scoring is calculated by the difference between what he loads and unloads at an industry world. So you must employ another character to utilize this trick. The merchant then can unload 60 metal with his 30 ships while the antimerchant then orders a 60 metal load to his key. The anti-merchant flies the metal to a nearby world for similar unloading next turn where the merchant will also fly to reload the metal. Another variant I've seen is to have the Anti-merchant gift his 60-ship key at the HW for unloading at the HW. This saves a travel turn but utilizes a gift order. Only 60 ships are required for this trick as the merchant can unload then transfer his ships to the Antimerchant as the order of events is unload, transfer then load. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- STARWEB EMAIL DISCUSSION GROUP - is now available on the web. Look for our new MAPPER'S SECTION on the SEDG Web Page. http://www.accessv.com/~somnos/sedg.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FEATURE - THE CAPTAIN'S LOG 000212.1105-5 By Walt Schmidt walts@dorsai.org The Deal Is The Thing... "Deals are my art form. Other people paint beautifully on canvas or write wonderful poetry. I like making deals, preferably big deals. That's how I get my kicks. - Donald Trump Let's talk a little about deals - the only sure way to maximize your enjoyment of a non-anonymous game. As my pallet I'm using the "goings- on" from a recently ended game. I'll let others write about the game itself, and I hope they do - it was a very interesting game. I'll just deal with the dealings that went on. [OUCH!] [Hi Alter - don't ya like my puns?] [OUCH!!!] First and foremost, you've got to be part of the deal from the start - to really understand how it developed. All too often history has a way of re-writing the reasons for things having gone the way it did. More on that in a moment. There were five of us against what amounted to the rest of the game. They, the Others, will tell you they had to band together in order to protect themselves from Us. The interesting thing is, others were invited to join with Us from the start, yet they declined. So who did what, and why - is already lost to time so to speak - history being re- written once again. We five had a simple deal - We would do our best to all finish in the top five. We initially had no idea of the order - We just wanted to ensure we took top honors. This was immediately changed as one of Us admitted to being in the game for the fight - not for the points. How did Our dealings turn out - how did we finish in the game? We took four of the top six positions, First and Fourth through Sixth - not too shabby if you ask me. But that's not what this log is about [RIGHT, so then why mention it, Nemo?] [Because I'm sure the readers would be curious if I didn't mention it] [RIGHT!] How did we make our deal work [NEMO] [Yes, Alter] [WHY not just call it an alliance as you have in the past?] [Because in this issue of SEDG we're talking about deals being made, not alliances formed]. As I was saying, to make it work We had one individual who was the unofficial Captain - and it wasn't me. In fact, from my prospective, I did the least - other than ensuring I 1) got my turns in on time, and 2) did what We decided. We also exchanged Our full turn-sheets, and stayed in eMail contact with each other. In addition and even though we never spoke of it - just the way we didn't "elect" a Captain - all five of us understood the need for compromise, and keeping our word. That coupled with the related concept, "No surprises!" If I may paraphrase Edmund Burke, "All (dealings) - indeed every human benefit and enjoyment, every virtue and every prudent act - is founded on compromise and barter." Yep - compromise and barter - an unofficial Captain - exchange of turn- sheets with regular eMail - and a strong understanding of what would be done to those who chose not to keep their word. - Shai Dorsai ! Nemo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FEATURE - THE SWAP CORNER - FINDING FLEETS How Do I - Part II Continuing my series on how to do various useful things with the Analyzer to facilitate doing your turn. 1) List all worlds on the World/Map View containing my keys. Technique 1 1. On the Tool Bar choose to Filter Worlds with Fleets(owner) . 2. Choose yourself as the owner from column 2. Technique 2 1. In the List View select Fleets from the view drop down control. 2. On the Tool Bar select the filter Fleets(owner) 3. Select yourself from the second column. The fleets will be listed with the worlds tucked underneath - looking like a reversed turnsheet. You can also sort by fleet number, owner or by world. 2) Show all allied keys within 1 turn of a battle world. 1. Set the battle world as ring 0. o on the Tool Bar press the Ring World Center Button and type in the world number or o Right click on the world in the Map View and select Set as Ring Zero 2. Set the Ring World Limit control (on the Toolbar) to 3 for one turn. 3. On the Tool Bar select the filter - Worlds <= Ring Limit 4. On the Tool Bar select the filter - Worlds with Fleets(owner) and choose all the owners you are interested in under column 2. The keys will be listed by world in the World View and in the Map View. 3) Find all pirate ships within 1 turn of a certain location. 1. Set the world as ring 0. o on the Tool Bar press the Ring World Center Button and type in the world number or o Right click on the world in the Map View and select Set as Ring Zero 2. Set the Ring World Limit control (on the Toolbar) to 3 for one turn. 3. On the Tool Bar select the filter - Worlds <= Ring Limit 4. On the Tool Bar select the filter Worlds with Fleets(owner) . 5. Select the owner in column 2 as the pirate. You should be provided with a list of all Worlds in the World View that you can see that Pirate's keys. These are also highlighted in the Map View. Remember, that if this Pirate is not submitting his turn sheets to you then your information may be incomplete unless you can actually see all worlds within 1 turn of the target location. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CORRESPONDENCE I received some interesting feedback about last issues Rant - The Starweb Formula. Elliot Hudes said: >In my opinion there is only one way out of this scenario which is >getting played out over and over in most games. That is to once again >ask FBI to adjust the scoring... John Shannonhouse said: Elliot, I actually have a more elegant solution. Make resources rarer. In my very first game, it was rare to find a world with more than two mines on it. The reasons merchants do so well is that there are worlds with five, six, seven, or even eight mines busy producing massive amounts of metal in a concentrated area which can be easily picked up and brought back by one merchant key. This does not require *any* programming changes -- one of the primary reasons given by FBI for not making scoring changes. John Shannonhouse ------------------------------------------- Paul Balsamo wrote: Elliot, Some comments about your rant from Vol. 25: " i) The merchant position is so crucial that you are at a disadvantage if you don't employ them. Combined with their considerable abilities to score you get a position that frequently runs away with the game and ends them prematurely." This is a problem, but the answer is not getting FBI to lower the merchants' point. If we (the players) want something done about it, I think we're the ones that have to change. FBI has repeatedly stated that the only reason they can get players to sign up as the "boring" merchant position is the ability to win. Whether we agree with that or not, I doubt we'll see FBI make any scoring change based on player feedback (although they were very quick to reduce the collector's museum bonus from 1000 to 500 when non-AC players screamed). That being said, let's talk about this so-called "disadvantage" if you don't use a merchant. If I don't use a merchant I can get to full production about turn 8 or 9 depending on the web resources and the need to explore. Unless a merchant just happens to show up early on my third ring worlds, guess what, I get to full production about turn 8 or 9 using a merchant as well (and I may have a key or two out of action for a turn while I make the gift). The only other advantage to using a merchant is that I only need 30 ships hauling instead of 60 for the rest of the game. So, in order to utilize an extra 30 ships during the entire game, I'm willing to give up any chance of winning and having the game end on turn 12? I think we all need to rethink how we use merchants. I rarely let a merchant do all my hauling. As a matter of fact, I don't use them unless they are allied with me and then I only view having them haul as a favor to them. Certainly, I don't give them free reign to score whatever they like. This is the same with ANY ally. I expect that we are all trying to come close scorewise and one of us will win (unless otherwise agreed to). This whole merchant scoring thing was so much easier under the old rules where a merchant could load 1 metal while dropping 60 and get no points ;). " iii) The Apostle needs every resource in the game to compete with other players from worlds to convert to keys/ships to Jihad with. It's cheaper for an ally to trade with many players than to give it all to an Apostle. For an Apostle to win he must have allies willing to push him over berserkers or merchants." I totally disagree. While it's true an Apostle needs worlds and needs to kill pop, this does conflict in any way with the other character types. The need for worlds can be pretty much sated by his own area. I rarely want other players to gift me worlds in their areas. I would rather just get the right to kill pop in their area and maybe need them to gift worlds to certain other players later. An apostle can even gift his HW to an allied EB every other turn. I also wind up gifting worlds to others so that I can jihad them during the game. I've given almost half of my area to an EB ally for jihad purposes. I see no conflict with other player's world needs. As for ships, I may ask for a PBB once in a while, but as long as I can be there when a berserker kills pop, you can use the same ships to satisfy two (or more) allies' point needs. I have won or gotten a 900 rating as an apostle whether working alone or in a large alliance with no one trying to "push" me over the top. In fact, most players are so disinterested with the apostle position and apostle players that they don't understand how to help (or hinder) them. "If I could make only 1 more tweak to the scoring I would also give the Apostle a 100 point bonus for dropping a PBB on their Jihad target. In this way they may be able to compete with the berserker. They still would be restricted to only their Jihad target and so their points for converts would remain important but I bet if they would become contenders if they brought in an additional 2000 points for dropping 20 PBBS." Apostles already get those 2000 points through worlds and converts. As a matter of fact, 2000 is just about as much as a well played apostle should get besides jihad points, so they are even with berserks there. What I think puts them over the top is that they DON'T have to be the one dropping the PBB (which makes the berserkers happy) and most players don't care if the apostle fires alongside them with a one-ship key. The main battle (fun?) is trying to get the worlds in the proper hands for the jihad. " ii) The Pirate's inability to score well tends to the play of the ruthless warlord hell bent on conquest. Their disadvantage is so great that many refuse to even try and plunder and score. " Guess what, if you have this supposed alliance of 6 players trying to push "someone" over the top without care about anyone else's score, that's 100 worlds (without attacking anyone) that could be given to the pirate. Just 2 plunders of each and that's 9000 points. Why does it always have to be the merchant or berserker that gets nominated to win? You make some good points about what happens when two alliances try to push their guy (usually a merchant) over the top. My advice (again) is, don't join or form the alliances in the first place. If 15 people sign up to play a game and all they are going to do is push one of two over the top, those other 13 people have to rethink things a bit. I really don't think this is a function of Starweb as it is the current player base. I join every game expecting at least a chance of winning and joining an alliance should be to my benefit, not detriment. If two large alliances are formed, try to make peaceful deals with players from both sides. The big guns will probably not have time to deal with you if they are worried about each other. Paul ------------------------------------------- Brian Lease said: Dear Elliot I agree and applaud your article "The Starweb Formula". If I disagree with anything it is that you don't go far enough in your suggestions to correct the problem. The reason some of us continue to harp about changes needed in Starweb is because we love the game and it has delivered so much pleasure to us in the past that we are reticent to let go. I fear however that without a major overhaul or an alternate version offered Starweb is on the way out with the dinosaurs. PBM itself is an anachronism with the advent of the internet. FBI has made adjustments and improvements but appears unable to capitalize in this new arena. Without reaching a broader market even with what appears to be a growing number of incarcerated players, FBI will not be able to turn the tide. I don't lay the fault at anybody's feet. It's just the way it is. I do suggest that a solution can be found and I urge FBI to try and find it. In response to my questioning why FBI had not gotten bigger and better during the PC and Internet revolutions Rick Loomis answered with the statement, "We're gaming guys, not marketing guys." Whether they like it or not they need to be marketing guys too. Not all the time, but maybe for a half a day once a week? We as customers can only support whatever products are offered. It has been suggested that any additional versions of Starweb would only aggravate the player shortage by dividing the existing pool. This is probably true, but if you are going to lose some of those players due to complacency anyway, why not take the risk? The new version might just spark a resurgence instead. Why not direct market to every player past and present that you have a new Starweb for a new millenium and that they should come back and check it out! This Newsletter helps but it is preaching to the converted. Only FBI has the power to increase the number of players and to improve on and update its fine product. OK, I've probably overstepped my bounds enough for one letter. My next letter will be a short discussion of strategy and tactics to use to try and disrupt as many players as possible in a Starweb Anonymous game. Best Regards, and Down with Nemo! B. Lease ------------------------------------------- Editor's note: Since the next letter from Lee actually mentions me I am exercising my right to make comments. Lee Knirko said: Your analysis of current Starweb games is right on the money! We are getting less and less enjoyment from the game because of the "two battling groups with the Merchant scoring high" syndrome. Added to that, are the growing number of players (Somnos included) who want to do battle and the heck with points. But the biggest problem, is the Victory Point Total. [Editor's note: As I said in my article, this is a symptom of the problem that a Pirate has in competing for score.] A recent game ended with a VPT of just 6,000. That's hardly enough to develop most of the characters. I had been in correspondence with FBI some time back to consider (a) increasing the limit from 10,000 to a larger number, (b) publicizing the VPT of each player at the game end, and (c) putting all those battle prone Pirates in a game by themselves. The only concession made was to make the VPT for Partners games a maximum of 15,000 because of the ability of partners to enhance scores quicker. So, the obvious solution for longer games is to have all players vote for the maximum score. Maybe discontinue the voting and make all regular games a limit of 10,000 like the 25,000 VPT for long games. FBI says "no", players with different character types should have the opportunity to vote a score that best optimizes their chances to win. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen. Some Pirates vote for 1,000 thinking they can plunder everything in sight and win the game before anyone else is developed. That usually doesn't work out. Most veteran players vote the 10,000 on EVERY game, and encourage others to do so. But you can't encourage a player to revote on the game you are in. Another trend is the recognition of Elliot as not only an efficient player, but very, very well known. As a result, Elliot attracts all nearby neighboring players to amass an alliance with a greater part of the web strength. FBI in their wisdom doesn't put Menkar anywhere close to Somnos, so I haven't been able to be included in the Somnos juggernaut of late. The game might be more interesting if there were, say, three or four alliances in a game instead of the growing practice of two. There is less incentive to play a game to win when the huge alliances are there usually with one General in each issuing the orders for all. Let's have an occasional game with the absence of the military, the heck with points, Pirate. LEE Elliot responds: Here are a couple of my thoughts regarding some excellent points Lee has made. 1) A game with all those warmongering Pirates by themselves sounds very intriguing and fun. 2) A higher VPT (such as to 15,000) or all games played to 10,000 would alleviate some of the problems of the too short game. It would help a berserker compete with a merchant BUT I don't see the Apostle, Empire Builder and perhaps the Art Collector being able to compete. That's why I advocated just slashing the merchant's scoring ability. 3) Games with four alliances would indeed add a greater complexity to the political scene and be more enjoyable. Aside from some of my private games where these alliances were made before turn 1 (and enforced) I don't see them as a natural consequence of Starweb as the game is at present. Perhaps if you could only declare 3 players as allies (or 2) on your turnsheet this would foment this sort of scenario. 4) I don't agree with your comment about large alliances with one General issuing the orders for all. Perhaps that has been your experience but I rarely join an alliance that puts one person in charge. What is the point of playing your position at all then? My experience has been that alliances work by consensus. Yes, this usually leads to an incredible amount of email akin to SPAM but it can be a lot of fun. In addition everybody gets to contribute and feel to be part of a team. 5) I don't think you can ever count on a game with an absence of military. Face the facts. FBI mounted guns on the ships. You can shoot, robotize, convert and PBB other peoples stuff. This leads to a strategy where you not only maximize your scoring by active trade with your allies but also by taking what you want from your opponents. And the military side of the game is a very successful strategy to limiting how an opponent can score by tying up his resources in battle or eliminating him. Failure to recognize and utilize this means you will be a lot less successful in Starweb IMHO! ------------------------------------------- David Lightfoot said: I read, with interest, your editorial in SEDG 25. I agree that it is time for a change and I would like to take the stage and voice my wishes (fantasies). We need change that will (a) discourage huge alliances (thus giving individuals more autonomy) and (b) make each position a little more fun, interesting, and challenging. I would keep the program changes as simple as possible. The object must be to keep the flavor of the game intact while introducing sufficient changes to challenge experienced players in each position. I propose two rule changes for each character type. I could write volumes on my reasons for each change but Ill be brief and let each reader decide the merits of these suggestions. Perhaps, if there was enough support from the players, FBI could be persuaded to update the Starweb program. MERCHANT 1) Allow only 5 points per metal unloaded at an ALLY world. (That is a world belonging to any player that the merchant has declared an ally at beginning or end of turn.) 2) Allow an unloaded merchant fleet to fly 4 worlds per turn, fleet with normal load (less metal than ships) to fly 3 worlds per turn, and overloaded fleets (more metal than ships) to fly only 2 worlds per turn. Summary of reasons: Picture a greedy merchant trying to get 8 points per metal by not declaring his team members ALLY. It will cause many inadvertent captures and ambushes, thus making the position much more challenging. The second change allows more flexibility to get at the metal in the 4th ring as well as making the merchant a dangerous enemy. PIRATE 1) Allow 5 points for every ship captured by Pcap. 2) On plundered worlds the industry doesn't build but allow the metal and pop to grow at half the normal rate. (2 or 3 mines build 1 metal, 4 or 5 mines build 2 metal, etc) Summary of reasons: The pirate LIVES for the Pcap, so why not let this be a way for him to accumulate points. If this makes the position more attractive then good. If all 15 players want to be pirates (highly unlikely) then let them as they are obviously having fun. The second change is for the benefit of the other players in the game. Merchants, Apostles, Empire Builders and Berserkers will be more interested in befriending (or attacking) the pirates if the plundered worlds will eventually grow some pop and metal. EMPIRE BUILDER 1) Allow only the EB to scrap 4 ISHPS to 1 industry on the same turn that the ISHPS are attached to the planet. 2) Allow the EB to build mines as well as industry following the existing criteria. Summary of reasons: EBs BUILD things! But the build option is seldom used. The first change will give the EB a one-turn advantage with his building and the second change will help supply all the industry we hope he will build. APOSTLE 1) Allow 150 points for each PBB dropped on his jihad victim. 2) Whenever an apostle fleet has more ships than a non-allied fleet at the same world, there is a 10% chance that the non-allied fleet will convert to the apostle. Summary of reasons: There is no good reason why the berserker should get PBB points and the apostle should not. Give the apostle a better chance to score. The second change would make the apostle an opponent to be respected. BERSERKER 1) Allow 150 points for each PBB dropped. 2) Against pirate fleets only, allow 6 points per ship destroyed if the entire fleet is destroyed. Summary of reasons: Encourages the berserker to drop more robots and fewer PBBs, thus keeping more worlds intact. As to the second change, the pirate has no natural enemies and a pirate/berserker combination is bad news to the victims. This encourages the berserker to attack the pirate instead of allying with them. COLLECTOR 1) A collector fleet may attempt to "steal" art from the world it is at or from any fleet at that world. It will work 10% of the time. 2) Allow a collector fleet to fly 4 worlds per turn. Summary of reasons: The possibility of stealing art sounds like fun. Then the collector needs to "run away" with his stolen art. In addition, the second change will give the collector more defensive capability and make him a valuable ally. All other rules to remain the same. Comments anyone? Dave Lightfoot Editor's comment: I enjoyed seeing your proposed changes. Many would spice up the game enormously. To fix the existing problems though, I would be happy if there were just fixes to the Merchant/Apostle scoring. I do like the predator role for the berserker! ------------------------------------------- Bob Becker said: Okay I see you mainly talk/rant ;-) about the Merchant, Apostle, Pirate and Berserker. Does this mean there should be no changes to or that the scoring is okay dokay with the Empire Builder and Artifact Collector? I remember when the AC received 1000 points for each museum he had at the end of the game and it was lowered to 500, sometimes I feel this was lowered to much unless again you have a large alliance supporting the AC. <"AntiMerchant"> Is this anything like the Merchant Warrior? < "How can we help FBI acquire more Starweb customers / players?"> Yes the ranks are slowly dwindling. My opinion on why this is, is due to all the free game servers out there on the net where a lot of people can play Star Trek, Half-Life, etc. etc. in real time. It's not only StarWeb that's dwindling I also play Galactic Empires which in just 10 years has gone from somewhere around 50-75 gamers to just a handful. How can we get more people interested? We the players need to make sure you tell your friends and other gamers about StarWeb and games you like to play. Bob Becker Editor's note: Actually, I think if you reign in the merchant the Art Collector won't do so badly. They often rank in the top 4 spots. My big concern was that slowing a merchant might require a similar treatment of the Berserker. As to the Anti-merchant - well, that was answered in this issue. ------------------------------------------- ASIDE TO FBI - Well Rick, as you can see there is a lot of interest in modifications of the Starweb game. Some are just personal fantasies but others would correct scoring problems that are quite generally accepted by the majority players. If you would consider making adjustments to the program I could guarantee finding players who would play test this modified version before you make any permanent changes to the game. ------------------------------------------- Sharon Wyatt asked last issue: Discussion of Scrap and Build Industry orders. The rulebook is a little murky about how to write the orders and what can be done with them. Elliot replies: I must admit I was a little disappointed that I didn't get much response to this inquiry because I thought it was an interesting one. But after one subscriber told me he liked to print off the SEDG for reading while in the 'JOHN' I am not surprised that it might be difficult for some to do :-). If anyone wants to write an article about this type of Starweb endeavor I would welcome it. Until then I will give a very brief account. To make new industry out of ships costs a player 6 I ships (only 4 for the Empire Builder). I believe the ships must be I ships at the beginning of the turn. The order is WnnnSqqq. The number of industry being created is qqq (not the number of ships you are scrapping. So to create 3 industry at world 34 would look like this W34S3. Building the industry utilizing industry and metal already present requires 5 of each (but only 4 for the Empire Builder). The order is WnnnIqqqI where qqq represents the number of industry you wish to build (not the number needed to create it). So if HW 44 owned by a nonEB with 30 industry wanted to build 5 more industry it would require the 30 industry and 30 metal and the order would look like this W44I6I. As to the logistics of building industry - that is a whole other discussion and could be a long one at that. Basically you must remember that the payback for the ships consumed is 4 turns for the EB and 6 for everyone else in scrapping industry (5 in building industry). Actually if you do it for many turns payback is quicker by the compound interest effect (See Volume 12 Empire Builder Scoring). Can you afford to give up those ships for that long? It depends on whether you are in a secure military situation - if you are under fire you will weaken yourself and possibly lose a war. How late in the game is important also - will you make a profit from it? In longer games you often have time to recoup your losses and make a profit. And you don't have to use your HW. Small industry worlds of 2-3 industry can build up nicely especially in long games. CLASSIFIED ADS From: John Shannonhouse: We have just set up a "SF Games" section in the David Gerrold forum. (David Gerrold is a Science Fiction writer, perhaps best known for writing the "Tribbles" episode for StarTrek.) At the moment that section is open only to CompuServe members, but we expect to make it more widely available to the internet in March. You can post comments, favorite stories, put out questions, etc. Besides the sections that are designed for "bulletin board" type written posts, there are also several sections for group chats. Your entire alliance could show up there for group chats and planning sessions. I would like to see some Starweb players show up. It may result in interesting other people in the game as well and bring in more players. In Compuserve do GO GERROLD. Or use the link: http://forumsa.compuserve.com/vlforums/default.asp?SRV=DavidGerrold John From Mike Wulkan - CEO Flying Moose Technologies Flying Moose Technologies would like to announce the opening of the Starweb Analyzer Forum message board powered by Coolboard.com. You can go directly to the board by using this connection --> http://www.coolboard.com/board.cfm/mb=973080192651561&mc=RB0011&ric=105 705001 This is a message board where public discussions on any topics pertaining to our company, the Starweb Analyzer or Starweb can be posted. It is similar to a Usenet newsgroup and I find the handling of threads much easier to follow. This can be a great place to meet other Starweb fans and users of the Starweb Analyzer. You can share secrets, tips and hints about using our software and just chat with other gamers with similar interests to you. Flying Moose Technologies will monitor the board so you can even ask us questions, make future requests for features and just chat. If you have a serious bug to report or require FAST Technical support I would advise you to continue to use my email address (or one of the Tech support addresses listed on our web site). This Forum is meant to be a more social milieu and I don't promise a response as quickly as I can via email. Mike Well, that's it for Volume 26. Don't be afraid to submit articles or suggestions. They don't have to be long. Address your correspondence to Elliot Hudes at somnos@compuserve.com