STARWEB EMAIL DISCUSSION GROUP (THE SEDG) (Sponsored by Flying Moose Technologies' Starweb Analyzer - http://flyingmoose.cjb.net) VOL 28 March 13, 2000 CONTENTS Feature Article - Mapping in Starweb Questions - Obscure Multigame rules SEDG Web Page URL The Captain's Log - Out Bug Out: And Other Questions... The Swap Corner - How do I Part IV - Art stuff Correspondence Classified Ads FEATURE ARTICLE - Mapping in Starweb Half the fun of the game is figuring out the map. To see the shape of the universe and truly understand the Cosmology of the Starweb is a laudable goal. It's a great puzzle to chew on. In fact, in some games I have been known to trade my turnsheet to everyone in the game just to get the map. (Obviously I had better be in a secure position to take such a risk :-). Besides looking neat it can help you to avoid mistakes by having it laid out for easy viewing. You can't protect your flank from an opponent if your tangle of connections doesn't make it easy for you to see a particular border. You can make predictions based on a well-drawn map. If you have cracked the pattern it may just turn out that certain worlds you have not seen MUST be connected. I have some tips for cracking the mystery of the map. There is no 1 technique that always works. We all have had the fun of drawing a map with a certain pattern only to find the next world we go to connects to a completely unexpected part of your map forcing you to return to the drawing board. Similarly, you may receive a new allies printout only to find that you must make major renovations to your map and perhaps even redraw it in a rotated or transposed fashion just so you and your allies can agree on where 'North' is. Hence the affectionate and popular reference to spaghetti maps! First - try to find some symmetry. There are a few maps that have violated symmetry. Some that defied finding any pattern at all (or we just never cracked it). But usually there is symmetry to the map. If you have a pattern that continues over a large region of space but then abruptly changes don't despair. There are a few maps that are actually amalgamations of several disparate maps. I suggest you visit the SEDG Web Page to view many maps and get an idea about different types. (http://www.accessv.com/~somnos/sedg.htm) When there is such a break in pattern it often happens at a HW. For example SW 1102 is a map where one portion was a box (with a square grid pattern) that also had 3 hex tori inside them. This shift of map type happened at the HWs. Sometimes the change in pattern is an illusion. All the maps are 3-D in nature. Where you decide to cut them so that you can lay them out on a screen or page can disrupt your nice little pattern. Just because your empire ends somewhere doesn't mean it is the most appropriate edge of the universe. Also remember that for the most part every player will start the game with similar resources and similar potential. It's not likely that a player will have 15 ring 3 planets while another only has 5. So don't draw it that way :-). For example - SW L/29 is a form of the torus map (If the bottom wraps to the top and the right border to the left - you will fold it into a donut or rather - a torus). This particular map had a front wall and back wall each in a cubic grid. Therefore you can envision the donut having a wall that is composed of cubes. Here is the problem. The 5 connectors (separated by 2 biconnectors) wrapped east west every third 5 connector. This gave the appearance when mapped that there were squares/cubes and triangles. The Torus in 3D space is actually triangular along its length whose walls are cubic. If you draw it on a page you get many connections that cross over each other. The key was to realize that you had to unzip the map so that the Torus was sliced lengthwise and that no triangles were formed. Sorry, no map on the SEDG page yet as this game is stills in progress. However as you drew your connections this is what you often found you had. C------D /| /| / | / | A--+---B | \ | \ | \| \| E------F This basic subunit is easy to draw. Problem was that each square ABCD, ABEF AND CDEF had another square above them and the triangles ACE continue to others east and west. To draw this involved a lot of crossover connections. But cut the connections in the triangles at AE and BF and here is what you see. A--C--E-->A | | | | B--D--F-->B It is now easy to add the back wall of squares without much confusion. That is the ABG (and hidden J), the CDH (and hidden K) and the EFI (and hidden L). G---H---I--->G /| /| /| / / | / | / | / A---C---E--->A | / | / | / | |/ |/ |/ | B---D---F--->B I hope this hasn't confused you. The point is to try to find a consistent place to cut or unzip the map so that it lies out flat nicely. Another tip regarding symmetry - the shape may be there but not follow an exact number of worlds. For example there are grids where the basic building blocks are squares but there may be as few as 4 worlds in the square (at the corners) to as many as 11 within the square. | A---B A--B---C | | versus | | C---D D | | | -E-F-G--H- | | | If you are sure it's a squarelike grid then try not to muck it up with diagonals or connections at weird angles. In this case the place you put the 2, 3 and 4 connector worlds is important. The 4 connector obviously will be at the corner of 4 squares and the connections must be so - | -H- | While 3 connectors can inhabit the corner of 2 squares and the wall of another such as B. If you are forced to put H down so that it isn't symmetrical then you should re-examine your grid for mistakes and rearrange where some of the worlds lie. e.g -H- |\ These types of grid maps may wrap at top to bottom and side to side also forming a torus or perhaps, only top to bottom. The sides then close themselves off to form something cylindrical. I have given examples of cylinders, donuts, cubes, boxes and others but one must remember that the 3D structure may not just reflect a surface of a geometric design. These give patterns that map out on a flat surface easily and wrap very neatly. But the 3D structure may involve worlds in the interior of the structure also. I have seen a square grid map that were 3 levels deep. The middle section was all 6 connectors while the outer level were 5 connectors (except where HWs were tacked on the outside wall forming 6 connectors). This is still relatively simple. Other tips. When looking for shapes remember that a 3 connector is easily a corner of a box with connections reaching down the edges. So in a sea of 4 connectors to find a few 3 connectors really screams out - boxlike with corners. 2 Connectors have been know to be just tucked into the pattern without changing it (put into straight lines). They are often used to bridge levels. HWs have been known to be bridge worlds between two separated pieces of map or between levels especially if they are biconnector HWs. 6 connectors often are symmetrical worlds that reach up, down, east, west, and in/out of the page. Black holes can be tacked on anywhere and not necessarily part of the map. FBI will create a beautiful map and find that when only 14 players join up that they have 3 extra worlds. Voila - they become Black holes placed variously around the web and often connected to each other. When hooking up various pieces of map to each other remember that HWs will never be less than ring 4 to each other (unless it's a partner's game or special game). Any two pieces of the map that are connected by only 1 connection can act like two astronomical structures in orbit about each other. I mean you may have to rotate a whole side around to get them to fit to each other. Now you have drawn your beautiful map and you want it to have utility as well as esthetics. It is helpful if you can color code the owners of worlds or by alliance. Tacking on the owner of the world is also helpful. The software I use - Flying Moose Technologies Starweb Analyzer does both these things and avoids the hours of pencil to paper and endless erasing as it uses mouse controlled drag and drop to position worlds. Revising the map is never a big deal. Some like to put on their maps where their fleets are situated as well as the enemies. Joe Taormina used to utilize a drafting program that allowed him to color worlds two toned to indicate where two players had met and were negotiating. In any case once you are done you need to share your hard work with your allies because it is a waste of time and resources for everyone to recreate the map. The simplest thing is to just make a copy and deposit it in the mailbox. BUT HEY - It's the dawn of the millennia and we should be able to use our advanced technologies. Possible answers. 1) Draw your map using ascii text characters in a text editor. You can use as connections the symbols --- \ / | and crossovers of connections with + or X. I got by very nicely with this for a while but many email software's will make some changes to the spacing and screw up the maps. Here is an example: The owners are given letters such as S=Somnos, ()=neutral and ?=unknowns. SW L/28 T4 083 ? | | | AAA----+----207---------BBB / ? | / ? / ? / | | / | / | / | | / | / | / | |/ | / | 148----+----146----+----108 | ? | S | ? | | | III-+-----+-221-+-----+-JJJ | | /? | | /? | | /? | |/ | | |/ | | |/ | CCC----+----144-+--+----101-+--+----060-+-------DDD / ? | /?FA | | / () | | / ? | / ? / | | / | | | / | | | / | | / | / | | / | | | / | | | / | | / | / | |/ | | |/ | | |/ | | / | 106----+----028----+--+-025----+--+-010----+--+-255 | ?FA | FA | | S | | S | | ? | | | | | 085-+-----+-229-+-----+-155 | | | | | | /? | | /() | | /? | | | | | |/ | | |/ | | |/ | | | | 239----+----212-+--+----189-+--+----055-+--+----234 | /?FA | / S | | / S | | / R | | / ? | / | | / | | | / | | | / | | | / | | / | | / | | | /053| | | / | | | / | |/ | |/ | | |//*S | | |/ | | |/ | 184---------033----+----076----+--+-089--+-+--+-222----+--+-228----+--- 2) Use a word processor or other mapping program. I was able to do the exact map (above) using Microsoft Word and I was able to color the front wall blue, middle wall black and back wall red (and their connections). In addition the owners names/worlds were color-coded. The only problem with this technique is that your ally must have the same software or one that can import your type to view it. It also requires sending the map as a file attachment. 3) If you like drawing the map you can still scan it into your computer and file attach it to your alliance. 4) Starweb Analyzer maps. The software utilizing a map file that contains the locations of the worlds generates the map. The software is programmed to color code the worlds and add owner's names (if desired) and paints in the connections according to the turnsheets. The file is just a text file with locations easily emailed or file attached. If your struggling and can't seem to create a map that makes sense remember to look for the repeating patterns and if all else fails - ALLY with someone who can map . Elliot ----------------------------------------------------------------------- QUESTIONS - Can anyone answer these? Obscure Multigame rules 1) How do you turn off all the ambushes in only one of your empires? Let us say you are Moose, Somnos and Slumber. The order to turn off Slumber's ambushes would be ... 2) Signs in a multigame may be individualized for each of your multi positions. How do you order it so that Moose or Somnos have different signs? David Benepe took a crack at it: >> Re: Ambushes and signs, my guess is it would be similar syntax to that used in Ally orders for multipositions, such as A[SOMNOS] = BELLY or X[MOOSE]=SNARK Thus Z[MOOSE] or SIGN[MOOSE] should work IF FBI programmers were consistent. << Not exactly correct. Remember the Ally order is actually A=WINKEN,TOM not A[TOM]=WINKEN. I had occasion to ask FBI about ambush and signs for multi games and here is the correct syntax. Z,playername is a valid order in a multi-game. It's useful in being able to turn off ambushes for only one of the players property this turn. To give a sign to just one position, put the code name on the next line with an equal sign in fron of it, such as: SIGN =SLUMBER Sign line 1 Sign line 2 If you don't put in a code name with an equal sign then the sign will apply to all of your positions. All messages (Diplos) will be listed as coming from your first position. You can't specify which one you want it to come from. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- STARWEB EMAIL DISCUSSION GROUP - is now available on the web. Look for our new MAPPER'S SECTION on the SEDG Web Page. http://www.accessv.com/~somnos/sedg.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FEATURE - THE CAPTAIN'S LOG 000313.0421-5 - Out Bug Out: And Other Questions... By Walt Schmidt walts@dorsai.org "The [game] can doubtless never be well known by theory: practice is absolutely necessary; but surely it is of great use to a young man, before he sets out for that [game], full of mazes, windings, and turnings, to have at least a general map of it, made by some experienced traveler. - Lord Chesterfield There I was with some nifty ideas to compliment Elliot's excellent article on mapping, when this damn bug [I SEEM to recall you saying a bit more than "damn!"] [Yes, Alter - but no need to go into that here and now] claimed me as a victim. So this will, by necessity, be a very short log. Simply put - do it, and as the new turn arrives, re-do it. You won't be sorry - and just might have some fun in the doing... "Living [the game] is an art, and we need the vocabulary of art, of style, to describe the peculiar relationship between man and material that exists in the continual creative play of [Starweb]. The [game] as we imagine it, then, soft [game] of illusion, myth, aspiration, and nightmare, is as real, maybe more real, than the hard [game] one can locate on maps." - Jonathan Raban Be well... - Shai Dorsai ! Nemo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FEATURE - THE SWAP CORNER HOW DO I PART IV - ART STUFF A) Locate all art on the World/Map View. Method 1 1. Make sure the List View is set as a World View. 2. Select the filter Worlds or Fleets with Art. This should provide a list of worlds where the art resides as well as highlighting the worlds on the Map View. Method 2 1. On the List View select Art. This gives a list of all the art and their locations on one line that can be expanded to give all the world information below each. This can be sorted by owner, number or type. B) Find a specific art on the World/Map View. 1. In the List View select by World. 2. Type the Art number (e.g. V19) into the Order Entry Box on the Tool Bar and follow it by the '/' or hit the Find button. It should highlight the world the art is at on the World/Map View. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CORRESPONDENCE Chris Richards said: Elliott, I am a newcomer to Starweb but the only game I have completed so far fell into the rut you describe very quickly, and I can see that it would become boring if it happened every time. The game is unbalanced - merchants have a big advantage and berserkers aren't far behind. I don't think there is anything players can do about this, since anyone who refuses the services of a merchant or avoids an alliance is going to lose. The only real fix is for FBI to change the scoring. If they were to restart the league tables at the same time, I am sure we would still have enough would-be merchants vying for a place in the new table, and restricting the tables to games completed in the last two years would retain that impetus. Here are a few alternative ideas, in no particular order: (1) Offer a game in which the scoring is balanced and character types are assigned at random rather than requested. That gets around the problem of no-one wanting to be a 'boring' merchant. (2) Offer a game in which your character type switches every 3 turns (in an order you specify) and you don't get to play the same one twice. Then everyone is a merchant, at least briefly. This would pose some programming problems - what happens to robots and converts you 'inherit'? (3) Abolish the league tables altogether. Then people will be more inclined to play the game for fun rather than to enhance their position. In any event, the scores at the top of the tables are so close to perfect that they can't change often. - Chris Editor: I doubt FBI can do #2 without a major overhaul of their program. The other ideas sound interesting. Some serious gamers might not like to eliminate the rankings. In a recent SEDG it was stated: >Thinking back to the early 80s, I remember what Flight Simulator was >like when I ran it on my PCjr. Today, if you haven't yet "flown" >Flight Simulation 2000, in addition to missing out on a real-cool >game, you're missing a good example of how a simple concept can be >kept - but can evolve into something not even imagined those dozen and >a half years ago, when it was first released. John Shannonhouse said: Keeping this concept in mind, we have the beginnings of the Starweb evolution already available thanks to Elliot, Flying Moose, and their SWAP. It allows you to take Starweb to a level unheard of in its first two and a half decades of existence. (Editor - thanks for the plug John!). Now it's up to the rest of us, with more than a little continuing help from Elliot - I mean you are reading this, his SEDG, aren't you - to engineer that which will take the evolution process itself, to the next level. >And all we have to do - in my humble opinion - is a little thinking >outside the box...< OK. Thinking outside the box -- graphical interaction is becoming more and more important to games. Let's take Starweb and see how it would look with a face-lift, but no real rules changes. Provide software that does the following: Provide a selection of graphical choices for the various races. Within those choices, allow the person to use his/her own photograph to "morph" the graphic into something half way between his own appearance and the basic race appearance. Do something similar for space ships. Allow the user to customize one of several basic ship patterns. The control center has a number of usable portions -- a mapping device, a communications device for interacting with other players, and a control pattern for communicating with and controlling your own keys. The mapping device would give a representation of the worlds already "seen", and allows the user to manipulate how the pattern appears, including color-coding. A click on one of the map worlds would bring up all information seen, or any information provided by allies which could be easily pulled in. The worlds themselves would be graphic representations, with standardized but varying views of mines, industry, metal, population, converts, and ships/keys of various types. There would be some sort of graphical ID for each player that would identify who owned what. A bit of point and click could set up provisional orders. After completing orders, what-fi scenarios could be played out to see what was likely to happen and to catch command errors. (EDITOR - SOUNDS A LOT LIKE THE STARWEB ANALYZER SO FAR ;-). The communications with others would do just that -- communicate with others over the web, er, I mean internet. It would send out a message to be intercepted by the other player's software. When the player took a look, an icon for that player would be blinking, and the message could be played and replayed as necessary. This would include a look at the player graphic in the command center graphic. Once satisfied, the player presses "execute", and his commands are transmitted. As soon as everyone has sent their turns, or as soon as a certain due date has passed, the turn is run. Continue for next turn. This would be something that, IMHO, would be a major breakthrough. It would provide a whole new type of experience for computer gamers, and would add interest to the ones used to paper. John Shannonhouse Bob Becker said: >> Howdy Elliot, Just had to comment on your Merchant alliance. In SW-1284 we ended up with all 4 Merchants in an alliance. This is how we did as for standings at the game end; LUCY - Merchant 1st place HOBO- Merchant 2nd place EXPRESS - Merchant 4th place (me) CORINCIA - Merchant 8th place CORINCIA probably would have finished even lower if he had not joined with us, and we would have had a higher place for him to finish at, if we had met him sooner in the game. The game ended on Turn 17. 1st place 7780 points 2nd place 7764 points 3rd place 6600 points (Artifact Collector) 4th place 6414 points 8th place 4990 points This wasn't just a runaway with the score Merchant game, we were also pushing a Pirate and Berserker to score high with us also. At the end of the game I was expecting to actually finish in 5th place with the Pirate in 4th place but our positions ended up reversed. Bob Becker << Editor: Well, although you still ended the game with the top spots going to merchants at least you had more control of the game and could get it to end at T17 instead of a miserable T13 as I've seen with runaway merchants! Now something from BIFF: Somnos wrote in SEDG 27: > In a recent article I went on a rant bemoaning the weaknesses I see >in the Starweb game (SEDG Volume 25 - The Starweb Formula). I still > believe every word that I wrote and if you have been following along >I received a lot of mail in support. Some felt I had not gone far >enough but in my mind I don't want major changes in Starweb as that >risks a change in the game. No, I want a change in the scoring. Biff: While not intending to seem ungrateful to Flying Buffalo, and certainly not intending to threaten their livelihood, I feel someone needs to point out that Starweb is a rather simple computer program. A decent programmer could duplicate it in a few days using only the rulebook, with or without any desired rule or scoring changes, then play it with his friends and save hundreds of dollars. (And probably legally, despite the statement to the contrary in the front of the rule book. FBI's copyright only prohibits verbatim (whole or partial) copies of the book itself, and I wouldn't make a single one. To keep others from legally reverse-engineering the game or running it for others, they would need patent or trade secret protection, and they have neither. Even if they had patented the game when it came out, the patent would have expired in 1993. The FBI Starweb computer program itself is certainly a trade secret, but trade secret law doesn't prohibit reverse engineering.) I bring this up only because FBI's management has no apparent intention of making any change in the rules or scoring, nor of implementing the many good ideas in Herb Diehr's letter. A new program would enable us to do all of these things for ourselves. What do you-all think? "BIFF" Editor: I think you bring up some very valid ideas that FBI should consider. Love your pseudonym - and I'm dying with curiosity about your true identity :-). Here are some thoughts from John Galt - I am not going to repeat the giant chunks of the SEDG that they are in response to. John David Galt said: ROTFL! If I'm a merchant and find out there are two or more other merchants "allied" with me, I'll consider the "alliance" a joke. Besides, even in a good alliance, a merchant can and should haul for "the enemy" if they let him and they supply the ships. All this tactic will accomplish is to encourage all merchants to desert your alliance and form the nuclei of new alliances. Should we call you Chamberlain? Leaving LONER's worlds alone in the early game just means that someone else captures them (or takes pity and allies with him), and you wind up having to fight the ships his worlds produce in the hands of an empire that will use them effectively. Absent a rule limiting the size of alliances, the only way I can see to get more alliances into the game is to play with more than 15 players. (Which would require both changing the computer program, and promoting the game to a larger crowd than there is now.) > Another idea I have had is a little more of an intellectual stretch >and a large leap of faith. How about a slightly larger alliance? When most of the players are cooperating rather than competing, it's no longer a game, IMO. And if you want at least half the players to agree not to pursue military options, you'd best seek their agreement before they choose their character types. (But then it's a pre-game alliance, now rightly banned because it's unfair to other players. If it were easy for anyone, including newbies, to enter into such arrangements -- perhaps by SEDG evolving into a publicized place where players can find partners before signing up (or someone else creating such a place) -- it would no longer be unfair.) John David Galt CLASSIFIED ADS From Mike Wulkan - CEO Flying Moose Technologies Flying Moose Technologies would like to announce the opening of the Starweb Analyzer Forum message board powered by Coolboard.com. You can go directly to the board by using this connection --> http://www.coolboard.com/board.cfm/mb=973080192651561&mc=RB0011&ric=105 705001 This is a message board where public discussions on any topics pertaining to our company, the Starweb Analyzer or Starweb can be posted. It is similar to a Usenet newsgroup and I find the handling of threads much easier to follow. This can be a great place to meet other Starweb fans and users of the Starweb Analyzer. You can share secrets, tips and hints about using our software and just chat with other gamers with similar interests to you. Flying Moose Technologies will monitor the board so you can even ask us questions, make future requests for features and just chat. If you have a serious bug to report or require FAST Technical support I would advise you to continue to use my email address (or one of the Tech support addresses listed on our web site). This Forum is meant to be a more social milieu and I don't promise a response as quickly as I can via email. Mike The Starweb Analyzer Contest! Mike and I have decided to do a little Flying Moose Technologies Promotion. If you can get a friend, ally, opponent to buy the Starweb Analyzer on your referral you will be eligible for our draw. Your name will be placed in the bin and the draw announced May 20th, 2000 (Assumes civilization doesn't fall at Y2K). The prize will be a Flying Moose Technologies T shirt (style/size based on what is available). Our goal is to get the majority of Starweb players playing via our GUI interface -The Starweb Analyzer in the new Millenium. Remember to tell your friend to inform us as to who referred them. Enter as often as you like! Well, that's it for Volume 28. Don't be afraid to submit articles or suggestions. They don't have to be long. Address your correspondence to Elliot Hudes at somnos@compuserve.com