STARWEB EMAIL DISCUSSION GROUP (THE SEDG)
   (Sponsored by Flying Moose Technologies' Starweb Analyzer
   - http://flyingmoose.cjb.net)

VOLUME 45 Feb. 5, 2001

CONTENTS
Feature Article – Starweb Behaviors by Elliot Hudes
Questions – Capturing allied worlds; Dropped players Conditional firing
SEDG Web Page URL
The Captain's Log - We Are How We Play
The Swap Corner - SWAP – Why use it?
Correspondence 

FEATURE ARTICLE

Starweb Behaviors

Starweb is a game. Yes, I know that sounds trite and obvious but if 
you keep this in mind you then have to wonder about how some people 
play this game. 

In most games you play you seek to win. Whether it is Monopoly, 
scrabble, chess or whatever. If one of the Monopoly players is 
falling behind you don't try to hold back your score/cash or augment 
theirs - do you? Imagine playing poker and folding with 4 queens 
because your buddy hasn't won as many hands as you! Ludicrous!

But the interesting thing in Starweb is there are many behaviors 
that don't quite fit into the winning scenario.

These are -

1)Alliance to promote others score over your own.
2)Alliance and holding back your score.
3)No concern with score at all.
4)Honest play vs anything to win.
5)Playing out of character.

There are other odd behaviors I've noted over the years but I will 
deal with them later.

Let's start with the premise that you play a game to win. Yes, I 
know you play a game (win or lose) to have fun but the goal is to be 
successful and therefore to win.

 1)Alliance to promote others score over your own.

Seems like a fairly altruistic thing. I will pay $5 per turn and use 
my game resources to promote YOU. Where can I find more of these 
types of allies :-). But in reality there is a very real gain to 
joining an alliance. For some, especially new players it is an 
opportunity to learn how to play the game successfully. For more 
experienced players it is also an opportunity to learn more but even 
better it may be an opportunity to play along side someone you have 
admired or even been trounced by in the past. This can supercede 
one's desire to win. 

Don't overlook that a player may ally and promote you out of a sense 
of self-preservation. After meeting 5 players on turn 4 and having 
not one answer your diplomatic messages and perhaps another shoot 
you on sight you may feel survival is your first priority. That for 
you to score and rank at all you may have to join a strong alliance 
even if that means you take a lower spot in the pecking order and 
are not the alpha male. When choosing your alliance you will want to 
pick the character types and players that you can work the best with 
and that may have to be thrown out the window when the only safety 
lies in helping the other Empire Builder or the other Apostle in the 
game. 

What was decided about the opposition? If it's agreed that it is 
untenable for an enemy to win the game you may have to bury your 
allies in a push to make sure it is somebody from your alliance. 
This is a good case of a philosophical win for you where you accept 
the vicarious thrill of pushing your ally over the Victory limit 
rather than watch the opposition win. It is presumed you will push 
the most likely candidate in this direction and sadly this may not 
be you.

2)Alliance and holding back your score.

So, you're in an alliance and obviously you're the leader in points 
and then what happens? Your buddy the Empire Builder says "Hey, can 
you slow down a bit and let me finish in the top 3", or he may just 
want a better rank. 

So what do you do? In most cases a good ally will acquiesce. Is this 
smart? Well, yes and no! It is wise to have a good understanding 
with your allies about your common goals and especially about 
expectations. A lot of this game is about communication. What did 
you guys agree upon? 

If the understanding was that certain people in the alliance were to 
rank high or even be as close to the leader as possible then you 
have an obligation to make that happen. It's not altruism. If you 
don't cough up what you promise you not only have a disgruntled 
ally, you have an ally that won't promote you as much as possible. 
More than once I saw this - e.g. An Art collector with a shot at the 
win not providing enough ships to the merchant ally in the hopes he 
won't catch up and pass him by. Of course this all depends on what 
you decided about the opposition. For me it would always be a bad 
deal to guarantee an ally can catch up even if it means somebody 
else (outside the alliance) wins the game.

Then there is the player type advantages. There is no doubt that a 
merchant with a good client list or berserker with allies willing to 
donate ships can win a match if he is unleashed to "Run away with 
the game". Often the person playing such a position will realize 
this (perhaps only after a few wins) and decide that a victory must 
include stymieing the opposition and aiding those in his alliance 
who wish to rank high even at the cost of slowing down. 

 3)No concern with score at all.

These players range from the purely psychotic, lousy gamers to those 
who are only happy with a military victory despite the rule books 
definition that scoring is what determines the winner.

Let us discount the bad players - we are all sure who they are and 
I'm sure none of our lists match up :-). But there is a military 
side to the game and the Pirate and Berserker's military prowess do 
easily lend themselves to becoming the prime goal for these players. 
Add to this that the Pirate is at a scoring disadvantage in any but the 
shortest of games. You need a lot of requests for the 1000 point 
Victory score for a pirate to have a chance. That's because in the 
early game before Merchants and Berserkers can have a run of scoring 
a successful pirate can plunder his way to the top. So for the 
pirate, winning is mostly a dream. What is left is a desire to face 
the enemy and out play him in a military fashion. Pirates who 
totally go with this philosophy and don't even try to plunder make 
great allies as they keep your empire replete with metal and can 
really knock the stuffing out of opponents making them less likely 
to win. 

Others who have perhaps played the role of a character type to 
multiple wins may not find it a challenge to go for yet another 
victory pin. Yet, they love the game, the camaraderie, the planning 
and will join and promote others sometimes looking for the underdog 
or perhaps trying to get the less likely character type to the top.

4)Honest play vs anything to win.

Now lets suppose for a minute that you play a game to win. Then 
anything that is within the confines of the rules is allowed. So 
making and breaking deals and turning on your friends is not only 
allowed but may be required for you to win the game. Right?

Then why are the majority of the players in Starweb playing 
honestly, honoring their agreements even if that relegates them to 
less than first place?

I think that that the cooperative nature of the game which 
ensures a much better result overall will tend to promote honest 
play. Add to this the smallness of the Starweb community and the 
fact that you will be playing with the same people over and over. 
This ensures that you can develop a reputation and if you cannot be 
trusted then a successful back stab may work in one or two games but 
eventually your past will come back to haunt you. So honesty is 
actually a behavior used to ensure long term success in upcoming 
games as opposed to the quick win in your current game.

5)Playing out of character.

I tend to ask players I meet what they want out of the game and what 
are their goals. Then I don't have to scratch my head later when 
they do things I don't understand. Or worse yet when they get angry 
or frustrated over something. 

If the player wants a very high rank or score then you every right 
to question why he, as a -

Berserker - isn't bombing mostly friendly targets, is fighting like 
a warrior.

Apostle - isn't ensuring that he uses his ships for cooperative 
kills and Jihad on high population worlds - again friendly targets.

Pirate - Is fighting rather than looking for more allies to get gift 
worlds from.

There are more examples. Some are fueled by misunderstandings of the 
Rule book. The descriptions of some characters will drive you to 
behaviors that don't necessarily translate into the best scoring. 
Without going into details - if you think an Apostle is a pacifist, 
a Berserker a warrior, a merchant friendly - then you haven't looked 
carefully enough at their scoring options.

Berserkers are creampuffs who need to preserve ships to make bombs. 
Yes, I know all the arguments about investing in a war with a pirate 
to grab new HWs and ships for use in making bombs. This type of 
discussion is best left to another article on tactics. And I have 
used this argument and ploy successfully but it is even easier for a 
Berserker to find 3 allies willing to build him bombs without a 
fight. 

Similarly the Apostle will make more points in Jihad (see my 
previous posting on Apostles - Vol. 3). 

Merchants are friendly - hah!! It doesn't matter who owns a HW he is 
servicing. And a merchant can get to full ship production first. They
are naturals to fuel an early strike by themselves or their pirate 
buddies and take your HW. They only need a few HWs to score.
So why should they be friendly to everyone? 

How about Art Collectors - once they have traded everything they own 
- ships/keys/worlds for art what is left? I have to tell you that 
all that is left is warfare. Try and take art from others forcibly. 
And why not? You can lose all your keys/ships and worlds and as long 
as you are hiding your art somewhere you still score. The Art 
Collector can actually divorce his scoring from the resources needed 
by war. What does he care if they are all lost or even his original 
territory. A warmongering Art Collector can be quite successful and 
a lot fun. Link up with similar minded players like a Pirate and 
Berserker and your set. 

Well, that's all for now.

Elliot Hudes
Somnos@compuserve.com 
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QUESTIONS - Can anyone answer these?

1)For the newby – If you have used up your two gift orders can you
think of another way to get keys or worlds to your allies over
and above this limit?

John Gault answered:

Perhaps I should keep quiet and let the newbies have this to 
themselves, but there are several ways.  The most obvious is to have 
the recipient send a fleet to your world, then the next turn he 
declares you non-ally (but turns off ambushing in places you might be!) 
while you transfer all ships on the world to his fleet.  (And give any 
industry orders that either don't build any ships, or build them onto 
his fleet.)

Editor's note: That will work but you do take a lot of risks with 
ambush and there is a lot of coordinating needed. A simpler approach 
would be for the recipient to bring a key that contains 2 ships. Your 
buddy transfers up the homefleet while you order AH. If you do this 
even an allies world would go neutral – and your key being the only one 
there not at peace will capture. 

2) For the experienced. When attacking the world or key of a dropped 
player sometimes the key, several keys and/or the world fires back. 
Sometimes they do not. I have heard that nothing in the Starweb 
program is truly random so what determines the response? (Warning – 
I do not have the answer to this one).

John Gault takes a stab:
First, I am fairly certain that the dead player's standing Ally and 
Loader orders remain in effect, unless and until someone takes over the 
position. So if I declare you ally and then quit, nothing that "I" 
still own will fire at you under any circumstances.  (At-Peace orders 
will also remain in effect, though that rarely comes up.)

Editor: This is correct so far.

John:
Second, I will guess that each world or fleet will always "CF" at some 
non-empty, non-allied fleet or homefleet at its location, if there is 
one; and if there is more than one, they will be fired at in rotation, 
starting with the lowest numbered fleet, proceeding to the highest, 
then homefleets.

If the owner of the hostile forces transfers ships to a previously 
empty fleet or homefleet, as far as I can tell they will never be fired 
upon. The AI that fires does not attempt to be very smart; it fires 
only at targets that contained ships at the beginning of the turn.  I 
have never seen a dead player fire at population or industry, either.

I have never seen any case where the dead player's ships didn't fire 
that I could not explain as the result of one of the above causes.  Of 
course, it's usually a complete guess what Ally declarations may be in 
effect on the dead player's behalf, since he tends to either be 
unreachable or not want to talk about the game anymore.  (If I quit 
with anything left, I tend to set as allies everyone who didn't 
participate in taking me out -- not just the people who were my allies 
during the game.

Editor: I'm not sure if the fleets fire at the lowest to highest keys 
first but I will keep my eyes open for this. I have seen instances 
where I've fired at a dropped homeworld that was rife with keys and 
only some of the dropped positions keys fired back. This had nothing to 
do with ally status and I'm not sure why only some fired while others 
were happy to sit there. That was why I wondered about the randomness 
of this.

Rick Loomis clarifies:
You have heard incorrectly. There are a couple of random things in 
Starweb. One is how many converts you make as an apostle. Another is 
which of your fleets and worlds the computer decides to make 
"conditional fire" when you miss a turn. (Note that a ship which has 
been selected to "conditional fire" will also NOT AMBUSH you even if 
the conditional fire is not triggered.) 
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STARWEB EMAIL DISCUSSION GROUP - is now available on the web. 

Look for our new MAPPER'S SECTION on the SEDG Web Page.

http://www.accessv.com/~somnos/sedg.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
FEATURE - THE CAPTAIN'S LOG 010127.0931-5
  We Are How We Play
  By Walt Schmidt walts@dorsai.org

"I am what is mine. Personality is the original personal property." -
Norman O. Brown

Let's take a continuing look at two Starweb behavioral viewpoints: the 
general (as Elliot has already done an Admiral job of) and the local -
which has just become a regular semi-annual event. More on that, below.

 GENERALLY SPEAKING...
   ...and to add to what Elliot already wrote.

Elliot has given us five categories - Alter and I [HI ALL!] will give 
you two viewpoints, based on one dictum.

The truism: "Starweb is only a game." Say that aloud - say that to 
yourself - think it. The simple point here is that it is a game and 
only a game - and that gives us a number of options not available in 
real life. [Alter has asked that I digress for a moment, and allow him 
to make a point, a very valid point] [THANKS NEMO - my point is a 
simple one - regardless of the game, some folks seem to forget that 
that's what it is! One could say they live some of their life 
vicariously, through the game. We, the Cap and I, aren't gonna touch 
that "one" with any length pole].

Viewpoint One: Starweb might only be a game, but it is serious stuff 
that is not to be taken lightly.

This is sorta an extension of how some people live their (real) life. I 
won't say it is wrong - but to quote the vernacular of recent years 
past, "Lighten Up!" You know those types. Give them a ton of gold - and 
they would bitch about its weight! Lighten Up! [ER, NEMO, you said that 
already] [Alter, so? It's true and they should...]

Viewpoint Two: Starweb might only be a game, but that does give us a 
chance to maximize our enjoyment, without necessarily always being 
concerned about how today's actions will come back to haunt us, 
tomorrow.

The game (that is each game) can be broken down into various parts – 
each of which can provide us with its own joys.

As example - for years, Loomis used 2-dimensional maps. Based on what 
I've seen of late - I believe he has moved to 3-dimensional ones. And 
tough they be. I've spent days trying to develop a predictable pattern. 
Some would say it is a waste of time. Me, it's one hell of a lot of 
fun.

Now that (all the time spent mapping [OR TRYING to!] [You think you can 
do better, Alter?] [DAMN STRAIGHT I could]) means the time I'm spending 
on game-tactics is probably lacking. And therein is one of the points 
to an alliance, to Viewpoint Two, and to the Starweb game as a whole!!!

In real life, notwithstanding my work-team or my life-team, there are 
certain responsibilities for which I must always be involved. In 
Starweb - it is only a game...

 LOCALLY SPEAKING
   ...and what a game it is!

Therefore, I am announcing the Second Semi-Annual Captain's Challenge
Game!

This is a semi-monthly, email, dual-multi (each of us will play two 
different character types), 20,000 victory point game. All 
communications are allowed, and the only other requirements or rules 
are there ain't any - other than those printed in the Starweb Rules 
booklet.

The winner of this challenge-game will be the recipient of the Second-
Ever Captain Nemo Fabulous No-Prize, get special mention in a special 
edition of SEDG, and, receive a specially designed Winners No-Prize 
certificate - designed by himself and suitable for framing or any other 
use the winner can think of . . .

So, will those six others of you who feel they are up to the challenge, 
who perhaps want to try out one of Elliot's behavioral styles, please 
send me an email.

The game will include the seven of us (the first six of you and me), 
and promises to be one hell of an adventure - if the ongoing First 
Semi-Annual Challenge game is any example.

Be thee up to it?

'Til next log - Shai Dorsai !  

   Nemo
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FEATURE - THE SWAP CORNER

SWAP – Why use it?

As part of my completely unashamed self promotion of Flying Moose 
Technologies Starweb Analyzer I thought that this time I would explain 
why I find the program invaluable to the playing of Starweb. Now I 
admit that Mike and I designed the program with our needs in mind but 
we have added in so much that I think it suits many playing styles.

The Starweb Analyzer (or the Analyzer as we like to refer to it) 
started off as a small DOS type program that was designed to combine 
several players' turnsheets so that you could have a master turnsheet 
for that turn. In addition it would remember worlds that you had seen 
before either by probe or visiting that you know longer see. It would 
label the world so you knew the information wasn't current. Mike and I 
just kept adding features.

Presently the program scans in all your turnsheets and those of any 
other player that you have obtained. The only information not 
incorporated are the previous turn's orders. For those really OCP 
(Obsessive Compulsive Personalities) you can either review them 
manually or I recommend a prescription for Pimozide :-).

You are presented with a split screen where one side has the online 
combined turnsheet (which can be printed for those that absolutely must 
play with paper and pen) and the map is on the other side. 

The map is one of the most useful tools. It is in color and each 
player's worlds are a particular color and have the world number and 
owner labeled. It is possible to color whole alliances the same color. 
One of the frustrating things about mapping with paper and pencil is 
that before the pattern becomes apparent you may have to do much 
erasing and many iterations. The online map is easier to manipulate. As 
the border world is visited and new connections become known or 
ownership changes this is automatically added to the map. It is a 
simple matter to move worlds with the mouse and play with the map 
pattern. The mapping function automatically paints in the connecting 
lines between worlds so changing a map is simple. The other nice thing 
is that when you decide to use many of the Analyzer's screening 
functions they will show up on the map. For example, if you decide to 
show all worlds you own with homefleet – only those with the homefleet 
will be shown in color on the map. The defenseless worlds will be 
grayed out. There are many advanced functions as well – if you want to 
create orders straight from the map you can do so with the click of a 
mouse which will send the orders generated to your order template.

The World View (combined turnsheet). In addition to having all this 
information we have added tools to quickly identify things you want.

When an ally says go to W143 and you can't remember where it is, simply 
typing it in the order box and adding '/' will make it light up on the 
map. As will the location of any fleet or art. There are filters that 
will let you identify such things as 
-	The best worlds for gift to an EB
-	Worlds with industry
-	Worlds in order of metal stockpiles
-	Worlds in order of population size/limit (great for berserkers 
and Apostles
-	Worlds with PBBs over them
-	Worlds with art
-	Worlds with enemy fleets (or anyone's fleets)

The other thing that I like to promote is the order editor. It can 
start off blank and you can just type your orders in. The order checker 
will find any typos, syntax errors, mutually exclusive orders and even 
check if you flight path is correct (that the connections are correct). 
But if you want to have even better versatility – the Order Editor 
Template will set up a document where all possible builds, unloads, art 
and fleet orders are presented (but are usually incomplete). There is 
opportunity for comments so you can write down your goals or plans for 
your allies or for future reference. These are stripped out by the 
editor before sending the orders to FBI.

To make this clearer here is an example:

** Build Orders
[SOMNOS] W50B1I W50G=CURIOSITY * Last world to Curiosity.
*--------
** Unload Orders
[SOMNOS] F117U5
[SOMNOS] F237U1
*--------
** W66 
[CURIOSITY] I66T18F127
[SOMNOS] F127W22 * Off to harass Saurian!
*--------
** W112 
[CURIOSITY] I112T26F190
[SOMNOS] F190W247 * Starting to enter Gozer.
*--------
** W150 
[SOMNOS] F69W232W121 * Vs Gozer in Collin 

In this example I am playing Somnos. The orders for Curiosity are my 
requests that I will send him but the Analyzer knows not to send it to 
FBI. 

Of course this was just a brief overview and there are many more 
features. So if you are interested please come to the Flying Moose 
Technologies Web Site and look around. We even have a complementary 
Evaluation version of the program you can download and use to try out 
the program. (It is best used for turns 1-6).
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CORRESPONDENCE

Elliot,

your SEDG was entertaining as usual.
I wonder, why FBQ stopped to appear.
Maybe SEDG made it obsolete? <g>

Just two short comments:

The author, that wrote the novels on
the diplomat Retief was Keith Laumer.
Really great books!

Robert Easton did not state his third reason:

He can play backstabbing characters without loosing
further on his reputation.

Ad Astra!

Edilbert Kirk <

Editor: Yah, I would like to see another FBQ soon too. C'mon FBI – keep 
up!

Rick Loomis (in reference to game names):
What would you expect from a berserker named BAMBI? 

Editor: I don't know – that he knows how to run away from the hunters 
<g>.

Well, that's it for Volume 45. Don't be afraid to submit articles or 
suggestions. They don't have to be long. Address your correspondence 
to Elliot Hudes at somnos@compuserve.com