STARWEB EMAIL DISCUSSION GROUP (THE SEDG) (Sponsored by Flying Moose Technologies' Starweb Analyzer - http://www.flyingmoose.ca) VOLUME 62, Monday July 1, 2002 CONTENTS Feature Article - 1) Ramblings of a SW veteran by Daryl Paul - 2) Your Reporter from the Front by Richard Broman Questions - Migrations, conversions and last turn scoring. SEDG Web Page URL The Swap Corner Correspondence FEATURE ARTICLE Ramblings of a SW veteran by Daryl Paul Hi Elliot (you too Rick, decided to copy you, I am really glad you are still around, Starweb looks as intriguing as ever), I am Daryl Paul and have been away from the game of StarWeb for a long time (at least 10 years, probably more, before victory pins). Look me up, I am actually still mentioned in Rick's ratings page, what a testament to a well-run company. I have just recently started thinking about playing again and got to the Flying Moose site from the FBI page. I have browsed through all of the SEDG articles and have enjoyed them thoroughly. I can't remember which ones I saw things in but here are some thoughts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Analyzer: In a way I am sorry to see this. My big advantage was that I was always good at logistics. In the paper and pencil days I could implement magical multi-turn attacks. Looks like this tool will allow my opposition to brandish phasers instead of pitchforks. On the other hand, why give myself a headache with the mundane details of running an empire. I have already ordered a copy and look forward to using it. Just the mapping feature alone will probably save me a few boxes of pencils. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You asked what Rick could do to build up the player pool? I am sure it can be boring to play against the same experienced players over and over again and a bigger pool of experienced players would certainly provide more variety. However, on the other hand how big does Rick want to grow (that's a question for Rick to answer). It appears that he has an operation that makes money, that his employees are actually friends, and is not so big has to require him to have to turn into a corporate mogul. However, I noticed that he has started a beginner's game (which I think it is a good idea, it at least gives a newbie a chance to learn the basics without having an experienced old warmonger show up on his home world on turn 6 and blow him away forever) this implies that he is interested in expanding the pool. I was recently talking to a co-worker who was describing a baseball simulation that he had gotten involved in and he seemed like a perfect candidate for FBI type games, he has since taken a look at the site and is planning to start a beginner's game. This is what gave me the idea for a pool of players that it would make sense to tap into -- old guys/gals. Both my friend and I are in our mid 50's. That is an age that has watched computer technology grow from its infancy but was already into the career and time consuming family years when the internet craze and computer games came into vogue. The teenagers and young unmarrieds with a gazillion hours of time learned all that stuff inside out while us older types were content to learn enough about the Internet to use it for research, sports scores, news and e-mail. Most of us are not interested or don't have the time to get on-line for hours a day to play an Internet game. However, our minds are still active and a game that requires a sophistication of thought that can be dealt with on our own time is appealing. Thus, I think targeting the 50+ demographic may be ideal for growing the pool of players. With that said: Newbie attraction: 1. Generate a flyer designed to appeal to the 50+ demographic (Starweb, illuminati, world war, ND) and try to get it distributed by AARP. 2. Maybe a few lines in the cheap ad sections of magazines targeted for the older demographics. 3. Put that flyer on-line such that it can be printed and posted on bulletin boards in office buildings. 4. Have flying buffalo design an errata sheet with 5 - 10 three or four line ads that are suited for cheap regional newspapers like greensheets, apartment locators, etc., where the ad might be run for less than twenty dollars. Then include this errata sheet with every snail-mail turn mailed out (and maybe the entire FBI email distribution list). Explain that FBI is trying to build its customer base (and why that would be good for the existing customer base) and ask that any player with a few extra dollars run the ad in his local paper. Perhaps with some kind of code so that credit could be given for any new player generated (obviously has to be a good revenue generator). 5. Allow players when they sign up for a game to fill (or return with first turn) in a voluntary check off box for a special account. The player would designate some minimal amount extra (5-50 cents) he would be willing to pay per turn. This extra money would then go into a special account and when that account built up to the substantial size required for a national ad in a major publication Rick could go big- time without tapping into his normal meager revenue stream. Think about it, would an extra few cents a turn really make any difference to you. So what if it takes a few years to build up. This might be a way for those of us who want Rick to survive to get him a big tofu burger without him having to raise prices. 6. Merchandise: Get Walmart and Sam's clubs to distribute Nuclear War card games. Put a few ad cards in the pack with instructions to give it to and old person. Keep your mind alive -- play complicated games - - from the privacy of your room -- no computer skills necessary. 7. Volunteer at an old folks home, maybe organize and run a private game for them. Doesn't have to be as intense as a convention, make it last several weeks with a turn every three or four days. Standby -- I need a standby, throw that walker out the window and robotize that pesky pirates HW for me. I am not an advertiser so those are just thoughts someone in the advertising industry might be able to expand on. I have seen plenty of articles in the SEDG on ways to change Starweb. Maybe you can take the ideas above and throw them into an SEDG article as fuel for thought on expanding the FBI player pool. Challenge everyone to send in at least one idea and then forward them all to Rick or condense them into an SEDG article. Whatever is done remember that it is Rick's baby and he gets to decide. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Article topic: The unwilling spoiler Has anyone been in this position and played it until the end, the tactics used might be interesting. I have to go through my junk room and see if I can find my old game notebooks. I have a notoriously bad memory and would need to refresh myself on the details of the game. I had a game at least 15 years ago where a merchant backstabbed me and was robot attacked at my homeworld very early in the game (HMMMM, how does a merchant perform a robot attack). I had very few resources and no reasonable way of accumulating more, any chance of a decent score was gone. This would have been an easy game to drop out of and just start another where my position would be better, but that is not my style. Those players who thought that would be a winning strategy were mistaken, what they did was create an enemy whose sole purpose for the rest of the game was to prevent them from winning and hurt their score as much as possible -- drop-out, never. I played as a guerrilla for the rest of the game, setting up ambushes, blasting industry, avoiding direct confrontations, only my files know what else. This was before the e-mail mega alliances and I don't even remember if I ever allied with anyone, if I did it was minimal. I ended up thoroughly enjoying the game and had a ball preventing them from scoring well, needless to say neither of them won. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mapping: I am an engineer with a decent math background and have thorough enjoyed the articles on mapping with all the references to warped 3 dimensional geometric spaces. Although, I don't think the bug map fits this genre. But give me a break, does anybody really believe that Rick spends his time reading math journals to find yet another weird mathematical figure to lay a map in. I think not (hey, Rick don't spoil my illusion). I can just see myself in Rick's position, cackling to myself while flying to a convention designing a new map. Rick has always had the reputation of being notoriously fair so whatever else he does to a map the home areas have to be fair to each of the fifteen players. Does that mean they all have to be the same, no, just fair. So I design a few basic patterns for a homeworld space (maybe they are all the same, maybe not), figure out how I want the 15 players to meet each other and then connect them together. Then cackling to myself I change stuff, I give one a few extra connections but plant a black hole to balance the connections I didn't give another area. A few extra industry here, a few extra Artifacts there. Ah the fun of designing a playing field that is fair and almost mapable and then sitting back and watching the pundits try to figure out if it is a mobius torus or some other equally absurd mathematical shape, when in fact I drew the map on the back of 15 peanut bags connected together with scotch tape and sewing thread. Rick's running a game company and after running the same game for 20+ years I will bet designing a new warped map is still fun. Editor's note: I believe that Chuck designs the maps and he has some software that helps him analyze the fairness of the setups. I have designed 4 maps (now in the FBI pool) and Chuck was able to put my data thru his software and send me back almost instantaneous feedback about the closeness of my HWs etc. I have no doubt that Chuck DOES sit down and try to put together weird mathematical constructs and probably even cackles while he does it :-). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mega alliances: Even without playing a game it appears the two-pole mega alliance doesn't sound like much fun for most of the players. Hey Rick, how about allowing a maximum of two allies at any one time. He! He! Populate a game with no merchants (and maybe no berserkers) let everyone wonder who has the merchant sewed up in the back forty. I think the merchant's name is Shadow last I heard he was hauling for Winimust. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pirates: Is it really true that Pirates don't win much anymore, maybe it is because of the modern day style of play and the mega alliances. That's shame! When I played back in the 70's & 80's I thought it was an easy position to score from. The first Starweb game I ever played I played as a Pirate and won. Some advice to modern Pirates -- the key is keys -- starve the opposition of keys and they can't score. Treat merchants with contempt -- they don't really want to be merchants they just like to win. The merchant is most likely to score well and end the game early, don't let them use you. Figure out a way to use them without letting their score run away - the trick is how to cut them off without being a backstabber. The other ideal is a standby merchant who doesn't want to win but loves a good war; he can live vicariously through you and help you win. The berserker, the score worlds are obvious targets for his PBB's. Perhaps a dozen or so well placed ambush and capture fleets can be arranged, bet that would shoot the heck out of his ratings. What about a mega Pirate alliance, all pirates unite in an alliance and eliminate the scorers by capturing all their keys. Eliminate the merchants and anyone using a merchant first. Then after the Pirate alliance has dealt with those dastardly empires that ruin the game by ending it early, agree to make it every pirate for himself and fight it out till someone wins - that ought to get a game into the 20+ turn range. You capture mine, I capture yours, a see-saw battle to drool over, now where did I leave my tractor beam net. Editor: I've done the pirate alliance (3 of 'em) and went after the scorers. It's a lot of fun! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- That was far more than I intended to write and not well thought out, but it was fun. Hey Elliot look for me soon on a border nearby, I play honorably so I make a good ally, but I don't like to loose so I can be an interesting enemy also. The ultimate challenge is to be a steadfast reliable ally in one game and a bitter enemy in another, simultaneously. Lyrad ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FEATURE #2 - Your Reporter from the Front by Richard Broman STRATEGY In this game, three surviving Artifact Collectors scrambling over a limited supply of Artifacts will make for a fierce competition. And fierce it is. On turn 16, at the end of my last installment for this Article, I had a Collector score of 4380, getting 555 points per turn. My immediate rival, PCM1, had a Collector score of either 4494 or 4533, getting 390 points per turn. The score leader, PCM2, had a Collector score of 5555. PCM2 has played well, and my long-range goal in this game is to survive the onslaught and outscore PCM1 to place a solid second. The previous installment had a glitch in the text formatting when I posted my chart, but I hope you can glean the essential information. So far, PCM1 and PCM2 (the Leader in score) have adopted a strategy of attack, capture, plunder; and to destroy industry on any fully-converted or robotized worlds. My BEM ally and I have lost 139 Industry so far, and at this point (turn 18) that strategy has continued. Wherever the Pirates cannot capture, they destroy. A score or more of worlds have been robotized, then attacked, and been driven neutral. All I need to do is for my Berzerker or BEM's to move to any of these worlds, but I have more important tasks at hand. To give you some idea: on turn 17, BEM can see 267 enemy ships, but I have *2023* enemy ships in my region! They have made mincemeat of the BEM Empire, but he still fights, and I can understand why. His empire is virtually gone, but he wants revenge, the pleasure of seeing PCM1 defeated (in any form...) 2023 enemy ships on 75 keys, and I have 973 ships on 48 keys. But I'm getting more points than the enemy Collectors... Hm. Perhaps there's a strategy to adopt here. If I can survive... On turn 16, one of my exploring Berzerker keys has stumbled onto another PCM1 LIBRARY!!! Now the tactical situation is very interesting. There are several crucial points on the map- 1) One of the dropped player's HWs has the Ancient Pyramid on a neutral key. BEM and I attack it every turn, just to keep it neutral. 2) I invaded one of PCM1's libraries last turn, with enough ships that his defending fleet could not escape with the Artifacts. I managed to robotize the world, AND destroy the fleet. PCM1 chose to load all 10 Art onto his key, and fire at me. I destroyed the key, so now 10 of his Arts are on a neutral key. To prevent that key from being captured, I transfer 28 ships to Iships and attack the neutral key, in case PCM1 transfers ships in hopes of Pirate capture. PCM1 fires at my fleet, which is now empty. I take almost no losses. 3) The newly discovered additional library of PCM1, where he out- numbers me on a 7-Industry world, with 2 keys and 16 ships vs my lone key with 5 ships. 4) I've sent a very large Apostle key deep into PCM2's region. Fortune smiles on me again, when I can use that key to reinforce the newly discovered PCM1 library invasion. I will arrive in two turns. As far as I know both PCM1 and PCM2 are looking for my libraries but they haven't found them yet. Oddly, with 2023 ships on 75 keys, the Pirates were absolutely everywhere, except on my libraries. The choice for worlds where I would house my Art was made partly on the fact that I knew where PCM2 had probed, in his invasion of my region. I put one library where he HADN'T probed. I gave every world that wasn't converted to my Collector, to give the enemy more possible targets. I'm trying to make three libraries, and I'm pretty sure PCM2 can easily make three libraries, so I have no hope to exceed him. But PCM1 has lost one library so far, and a second is facing my tactical interdiction of 90 ships.... Turn 17 is a transitional turn; my ally BEM, has sent his own large key to the newly-found PCM1 library to press the fight. Excellent! BEM has lost almost all his worlds, but here he proves his worth as an ally. His presence on the library won't destroy the enemy Collector's fleets there, and he doesn't have enough ships to succeed in a robot attack, but he keeps PCM1 occupied. It gives me the chance to move my 90+ ships to within range of invading this library. Interestingly, PCM1 can see my invasion, which proves to be invaluable, in the wild fortunes of this game... PCM1 decides to load the Art onto his key to move them to a safer location. Likewise, since I see 2000 ships hovering near my own libraries, I also move one to a safer location. I fear I might lose one of the three I'm building, but I intend not to lose all 3. An obsession comes over me the morning I write my orders for turn 17. The library where I neutralized the Art-carrying fleet was now on a neutral and empty key, but PCM1's Pirate fleets had overtaken the region. I mean overtaken. There were enough Pirate ships in range of this world that everything I had within range would be captured if I moved onto the world. My only hope was the planet's home fleets, since I had transferred 28 ships to I and Pships last turn just to keep the key neutral. That world had 28 Iships and two neutral keys. One neutral key had 10 Artifacts on it.. All I could move to that world would be captured, and I knew PCM1 would transfer 1 ship to the neutral key to capture it too. Unless... I've tried every trick I can think of to survive this horrific onslaught, every possible misdirection. I think of one more. Intent on keeping that library out of PCM1's hands, and facing elimination by conquest, I committed an act of desperation: I transferred all 28 ships onto the neutral key, instead of doing any attack orders. Imagine my anxiety waiting for the results, when turn 18 comes in the mail: THE GAME IS OVER!! I remember reading that email, in fact at work. I muttered, "I gotta know I gotta know." when I scrolled down to the neutral world with 10 Art. My transfer worked!! The Pirate had enough ships to capture all my fleets there but NOT enought to capture my fleets PLUS the neutral fleet (now with 35 ships)! My relief was ecstatic. I knew the game would be ending soon. I felt lucky to have survived an invasion of 2000 ships and still have even one library. I could have had three, if the game had lasted one more turn, and PCM1 would've had only 2. I wound up having only 1 library, by accident. One library got captured by Converts, when I forgot to write the "I206AC" order. Another was held on my fleet, being transferred to a safer location. PCM1 sent me an email message that stunned me. It turns out, that PCM2 (the leading Collector) took first place, but it was his PIRATE that had low score! All game long I was so focused on comparing Collector scores, I assumed they would be the low score in each trio, that I overlooked PCM2's Pirate. PCM2's libraries made his PIRATE the score to beat. And I was within 1500 points of doing just that with my Collector! So close to taking first place, in a game where I was so close to having been eliminated! It's my fault certainly, by overlooking my own AC order. But still, so close... 1st- CHEAP (Col) 8045 (6545 + 3 libraries) PRIME (Pir) 6590 MEAT (Mer) 9165 2nd- REDJAC (Apo) 7024 KESLA (Ber) 6373 (one robot attack away from PRIME's score!) BORATIS (Col) 5790 (5290 + 1 library, only 20 Artifacts) 3rd- RIGEL (Pir) 8770 QUARK (Mer) 7697 UTOPIA (Col) 5274 (20 Artifacts but no library at game's end) 4th- HUEY (Mer) 1869 LOUEY (Ber) 1995 DEWEY (EB) 3737 5th- ATLANTIS (Pir) 2846 (dropped and devoured early) ISHTAR (Col) 1230 ORION (Mer) 468 Jeff, Joe and Steve: a really great game! Very intense, very enjoyable. My only hope was to see the game end, so I can understand your frustration you wrote about in your emails. The 2000 Pirate ships felt like a gunslinger ordering me to dance, and dance I did! Came in second, too. Never played a game as close and tight as this one! THE IMAGE Under the bright light of this planet's sun, the sky shone a brilliant azure-pink, the dust in the air making a pleasant sunset. Spires of the jaded Collector's Library impaled the sky in dark shadow, seen from the seats in the coliseum where a dark figure sat. The crowds of people around him were all hectically watching the arena in the center of the park, shouting, gambling, some even fornicating in the higher rows. Humanity. This figure looked around him, his broad black hat shading his yellow slits for eyes from the sunset light. In the heat of this planet's summer, everyone was clad in revealing fashion, but he wore garments that covered him totally. He did have his heavy burden of doctrine to protect. Even though the Jihad was ended, The Discipline mustn't be made impure by compromising with the fashion of the day. Looking throughout the crowd, this figure noticed several Converts in the coliseum, representatives for The Way, but not so many that they could exert any real control over the planet's politics. Not so many that the jaded Collector would feel threatened. With a tinge of regret, the figure recalls the unfortunate takeover on one of the Collector's Library worlds recently, which led to such a stunning defeat in the recent Calling To The Throne for galactic leader. The Collector had such high hopes. In the coliseum the Loud Speaker barked commentary on the wrestling match, which was the event here today. With only half attention, the figure heard comments like "OOO, THAT'S GOTTA HURT!" and "OH YES, FOLKS, NOW *THAT* WAS A SLICK MOVE!!..." and, "IT SEEMS THAT PRIMEMEAT HAS THE UPPER HAND IN THAT FIGHT, LOOK THERE...HE'S ALL OVER THE POOR GUY!..." but the commentary waned in the figure's mind. All the shuffle and frenzy of human activity distracted him. He stood up, and quietly left the stadium. Once outside, it began to darken. The nights came quickly to this planet, a fact that pleased him somewhat. It was, after all, the nights when the fun began. But in this age of over-arching technology, it was difficult to exercise indulgence. Not like The Old Days, when he enjoyed his Incarnation as Red Jack, the "Ripper" of London. To be so old, to stay so long in this realm, to remember those days, when he first encountered Humanity among the galaxy's lifeforms. Now they spanned entire star systems, and even made alliances with numerous species... But none like BORATIS. With a wicked smile, the figure remembered meeting such a being. Huge beyond normal scope, so advanced as to desire nothing but the accumulation of treasure. All else had been experienced by Boratis. All else was irrelevant. Possibly his only equal. Well, there was always KESLA, the artificial intelligence that many Berzerkers considered renegade. He was an equal too, if in an unusual way. We all agreed on one thing though: this galaxy's lifeforms made excellent food. And humanity even had a creative spark found nowhere else. Some very interesting inventions. And they loved games. He dropped his cigarette, and crushed it underneath hard shoes, then walked toward the starport, listening to the crush of gravel underneath his soles. Perhaps it is time to take on another name... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- QUESTIONS - Can anyone answer these? Last issue John Shannonhouse posed: But when do regular population migrations occur? If you AP and kill off all population (which occurs after population growth) do you ALSO get points for migrated population? Do they get killed, or show up afterwards? If they show up afterwards, do they show up before or after the PBB? Paul Balsamo answers: Migrated population or converts get to their destination in time to be killed by whatever is destroying pop at the destination (PBB, AP, Robots). I'm not sure why migrating robots would get there later (after pop has been killed) especially since they can kill pop themselves, but I'm not as experienced with robots as I am with pop and converts. BTW: Migrating converts don't get to convert at either world (it happens after they leave and before they arrive). Paul added: A few comments about the questions (and answers) in SEDG 61: 1. Rounding up/down of population/convert scoring: Population for EBs and converts for Apostles are scored in total and then rounded up for any fraction. That is, I am an EB with 1428 population on top of my turnsheet. I get 143 points for pop that turn. That's the same as 1421 or 1429 population. Same thing for converts for Apostles. 2. Apostle question answer C.iii: >>c) You drop the PBB. iii) If you neglect to go to peace AND convert the world to your religion. I believe you will still get the 126 points as Finnian owned the converts at the beginning of the turn cycle. The thing I'm uncertain about is whether the Starweb program will register that they were your converts before the bomb explodes and therefore dock you 76 points for these kills. Anyone know the answer to this one?<< You don't get points for killing converts that you own, even if your jihad enemy owned them at the beginning of the turn. You will LOSE points for ALL of the converts that you kill if you forget to go at peace and you wind up converting them as you drop the bomb. Believe me, been there, done that, lost 1st place because of it. The "owned by your jihad enemy at beginning or end of turn" applies to the world and regular pop, not converts. New Questions: These will be pretty obvious to the veterans but often new players don't see the subtleties. It's turn 16 and you think the game will end with the 18th printout (you have two sets of orders left). Aside from the usual mundane way of scoring for each player type, can you come up with some ideas to give the following players an extra push at the end? a) Merchant - (remember, there is no point going out for metal now as he will never have a chance to drop them). b) Berserker - No time to gift, move and deploy a PBB. c) Pirate - no time to move, attack and plunder. d) Empire Builder e) I'm not sure that there are any for the Art Collector or Apostle but I would love to hear your ideas. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- STARWEB EMAIL DISCUSSION GROUP - is now available on the web. Look for our new MAPPER'S SECTION on the SEDG Web Page. http://www.accessv.com/~somnos/sedg.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FEATURE - THE SWAP CORNER I'm afraid I don't have a lot to report. Version 1.5beta has not had many changes in the past two months although Mike has successfully eliminated a few small bugs. He will be wrapping V1.5 up soon leaving me the unenviable task of redoing the Help files. (Does anyone really read them? I find that cutting and pasting the answer directly from the Help Files easily handles many of the tech support emails :-). If you have ideas for V1.6 then please email them to us at somnos@flyingmoose.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CORRESPONDENCE Editor: In no way do I wish to start flame wars in this group but it always takes something controversial to get the fans to respond :-). Take a look at the response by Bob Becker to T. Worthington's opinion on winning. > In StarWeb, which has no such recognition, the idea that "our man >won" is nonsense. You either won or you lost. The fact that you helped >the winner get to the top of the pile only shows you to have been a >mug! In response to T. Worthington; Bullshit! Editor: To be fair in my reporting I must admit that there are those who agree with Mr. Worthington. Richard Broman said: I also wanted to emphasize the point about Worthington: if you have any occasion to communicate with him, mention that there are a lot of SW players who share his opinions that he very eloquently mentions in his correspondence. I would be pleased to put myself to the test of being his ally! I always love games where allies allow crossing the line, and the final results are still up in the air! Thanks again. Well, that's it for Volume 62. Don't be afraid to submit articles or suggestions. They don't have to be long. Address your correspondence to Elliot Hudes at somnos@compuserve.com